Germany and Mercenaries
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Heavens
Totenkopfhusar
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Joined: 22 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:29 pm    Post subject: Germany and Mercenaries

G'day,

I would like to suggest a few things regarding Germans and Mercenaries :
As you know, maybe, Germans can't build Saloons, but they can build a Reichstag. For example, a unit that we can train in the Reichstag improves nearby Mercenaries.
BUT, Germans can't get a lot of mercenaries because they are only available from the Home City. And even with the bonus of this unit, they are a lot weaker than Loyal Mercenaries from the other Cities.
In fact, the Reichstag isn't very useful either. At least some unique improvements which are good, but they aren't really more helpful than the Saloon itself.
So, I would like to suggest you a few things :

- Allowing to the German people to use the Mercenaries improvements from the Saloon,
- At least, allow them to train passively (with a shipment or some kinda thing) a German Mercenary (like Black Riders or Jaegers),

OR, allowing them again to build a Saloon, so there shouldn't be anything to complain about.


If you disabled the Germans' Saloon for a good reason, please tell me why. I'm a bit dull.
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:47 pm    Post subject:

Germany is the black sheep of AoE3. It's the surrogate of Prussia. I'm currently thinking about a redesign, but I'm still not sure if I shall refer to the 17th-18th century or the Napoleonic Era indeed.
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Therealshadow
Prussian Landwehr
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:51 pm    Post subject:

Why not just merge the german and prussia civs or just remove germany it makes no sense in having them both.
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ACleverName17
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:04 am    Post subject:

Itd make much more sense if you renamed Germany to Rhinebund, change the flag accordingly, and maybe gave it a few techs that the French have
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sennacherib
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:33 am    Post subject:

ACleverName17 wrote:
Itd make much more sense if you renamed Germany to Rhinebund, change the flag accordingly, and maybe gave it a few techs that the French have


"confederation of the rhine" would be perfect.
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Harkimo
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:12 am    Post subject:

Indeed, since all other names are in English.
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:36 pm    Post subject:

ACleverName17 wrote:
Itd make much more sense if you renamed Germany to Rhinebund, change the flag accordingly, and maybe gave it a few techs that the French have

No that wouldn't make sense concerning the current concept of the German civ. The current Germans are indeed the "Holy Roman Empire" (which officially existed til 1806). The Confederation of the Rhine ("Rheinbund") has in AoE3 terms "Imperial" troops. The ones you see now are clearly from the Renaissance til the 18th century.

I think having the Rheinbund is sorta lame in view of gameplay, it'd need all the standard units like Fusilier, Musketeer, etc. However, I think it could work as Revolution!

So my plan now is to have the (late) HRE and include the Rheinbund as revolution (if possible).
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fatookit
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:11 am    Post subject:

Good, as Germany wasn't there in Napoleonic era (the historic one). "Germany" is really too conclusive. Perhaps it can be replaced by other non Germanic Countries.

Also, American Countries Revolution is a bit nonsense for Germanic Countries. New Revolution Countries are very interesting. I sugguest that we could have some more special revolution which even enables some new units, but disable some old units, or have greater economy, perhaps.
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ACleverName17
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:48 am    Post subject:

Quote:
"confederation of the rhine" would be perfect.

Confederation of the Rhine is too long a name.

Quote:
Indeed, since all other names are in English

Irrelevant.

Quote:
No that wouldn't make sense concerning the current concept of the German civ. The current Germans are indeed the "Holy Roman Empire" (which officially existed til 1806). The Confederation of the Rhine ("Rheinbund") has in AoE3 terms "Imperial" troops. The ones you see now are clearly from the Renaissance til the 18th century.

I think having the Rheinbund is sorta lame in view of gameplay, it'd need all the standard units like Fusilier, Musketeer, etc. However, I think it could work as Revolution!

So my plan now is to have the (late) HRE and include the Rheinbund as revolution (if possible).


Can't say i agree, but whatever. Itd at least be better than the current German civ

Quote:
Good, as Germany wasn't there in Napoleonic era (the historic one). "Germany" is really too conclusive. Perhaps it can be replaced by other non Germanic Countries.

Also, American Countries Revolution is a bit nonsense for Germanic Countries. New Revolution Countries are very interesting. I sugguest that we could have some more special revolution which even enables some new units, but disable some old units, or have greater economy, perhaps.

What? I got the first part, but the second part is a complete mess.
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Gustav II Adolf
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:09 pm    Post subject:

I agree with merging Prussia with the germans.
Give Prussia 50 settlerwagons and no vills.
Make the landwehr a melee inf and remove the nice but anacronistic knight.
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:46 pm    Post subject:

fatookit wrote:
Good, as Germany wasn't there in Napoleonic era (the historic one). "Germany" is really too conclusive. Perhaps it can be replaced by other non Germanic Countries.

Eh, and like what? Razz

Quote:
Also, American Countries Revolution is a bit nonsense for Germanic Countries. New Revolution Countries are very interesting. I sugguest that we could have some more special revolution which even enables some new units, but disable some old units, or have greater economy, perhaps.

I agree.

Gustav II Adolf wrote:
I agree with merging Prussia with the germans.
Give Prussia 50 settlerwagons and no vills.
Make the landwehr a melee inf and remove the nice but anacronistic knight.

Landwehrs were not melee inf at all. For real they were ranged infantry, it's just melee for balance reasons. And no, Prussia and Germany is not the same. Though it might be in view of the mod's topic better to kick Germany totally. But I wouldn't really support that without any good alternative concepts.
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sennacherib
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:50 pm    Post subject:

if "confederation of the rhine" is too long, and not match with the eras, why not? german states.
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:59 pm    Post subject:

Why not just Holy Roman Empire? Wink

"German" is a tricky term, it would include Prussia too and also Austrians at that time.
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SAOL
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:21 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Why not just Holy Roman Empire?
I remember CaPutt complaining over that name when it was suggested long ago. I can't really remember why though. He claimed it had been discussed and dismissed.

I'm glad to see a change there, even if it never really took place.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:46 pm    Post subject:

I can't remember that hmmmhh The HRE is mostly associated with the middle ages and it seems to be a trend that the single states of the HRE became more interesting in the last decades to our public. However, the truth is that these states were always unique, even in the middle ages. There's just no one really thinking about it.

The HRE is not what it seems like. Like Voltaire once said, it's neither holy, nor roman, nor an empire. It was never just a federal republic and never a union of states, but always something in between. I'm missing an understanding of this. The Germans were as civ always tricky cause of that.

That's also why the Germans got the Reichstag. The original idea was to have some kind of consulate without the import resource. It grants access to the powerful and effective (and also cheap) units of the HRE, like the Saxon Cuirassier. But that concept was never really realized cause the old core team with Walker, Seraphim and Alexastor wanted NE to be an expansion of AoE3 and not really a mod.

So what we will do with the HRE/Rheinbund as civ says a lot about our reformed or traditional understanding of NE.
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President Washington
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:05 am    Post subject:

I thought the Germans were the Rhine Confederation.
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