The Evil Unit List (EUL)
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Opinions on the EUL?
Great list. I share your view on this! Make a correct NE!
33%
 33%  [ 17 ]
You might be right, but I think it's not important for NE
13%
 13%  [ 7 ]
I'm divided. There are (lots of) good ideas, but others are just a no-go.
25%
 25%  [ 13 ]
I think you'll get NE into the wrong direction with this!
9%
 9%  [ 5 ]
I don't care, I'll play it.
11%
 11%  [ 6 ]
Make something else *out of* NE!
5%
 5%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 51

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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:45 am    Post subject: The Evil Unit List (EUL)

The Evil Unit List


Hello reader. This is probably the most rancid discrimination of AoE3 units you ever read. I put units into categories and judged their suitability for a mod like Napoleonic Era, which - in view of its name - should indeed cover the Napoleonic Era and nothing else.

European units only!
Also not mentioned (yet): Natives, civil units, Asian + American units

1st grade (worst) - Really superflous Spoiler:

Units of scrapped civs. Stuff that is not even in use.

INF
Bolas Warrior
Cuachic Lord
Ghulam
Huaminca
Illapa Maceman
Inti Axeman
Javelineer
Moon Prowler
Oyente Spearman
Peasant
Sun Slinger

CAV
Elephant Archer
Qizilbash
Immortal

ART
Naffatun


2nd grade - Certainly Replacable/Probably Superflous Spoiler:

Units which are either highly incorrect, assumingly not in use, too weird or dedicated to die for any other reason.

INF
Teutonic Knight (Arrow Pikemen)
Katzbalger (includ. Landsknecht texture)

CAV
Camelry (?)
Tabor
War Wagon

ART
Weak Bombard (?)


3rd grade - Possibly Replacable Spoiler:

Units which could be actually replaced by another unit of similar strength (or even kicked). These replacements could lead to minor, but not far-reaching civ changes. All for the sake of historical accuracy!


INF
Poleaxeman
Swedish Fusilier (Arrow Commander)
Pavise

CAV
Utili (Arrow Dragoon)
Condottieri (Arrow Hussar/Chevau?)
Elmeti
Oprichnik
...

ART
Li'l Bombard


4th grade - Historically Replacable Spoiler:

These units could actually be easily removed for historical reasons, they don't match the Napoleonic time. Sadly I can't put them into any previous grade, cause their removal might lead to drastical changes of gameplay.

INF
Longbowman

CAV
-

ART
Leather Cannon


5th grade - Improvable Concept+Design Spoiler:

These units could stay if several things in concept would be adjusted and corrected.

INF
Janissary (How to nizam bizam?)
Rodelero (anti-inf bonus; Spain +pikemen)
Doppelsoldner (Arrow Merc)
Landsknecht (Arrow regular w. upgrades)
Chasseur (Arrow skirmisher)
Minuteman (Arrow civ specific militia)
Strelet
Schutze (Arrow Gemeiner)
Tirailleur (Arrow included in skirmisher)
Conscript

CAV
-

ART
Grenadier
Grognard


6th grade - Improvable Design Spoiler:

Units which should (or could) stay, but look like shit, outdated or simply have the wrong design. This affects first of all the general design, seldomly wrong weapons, cause weapons are improvable for almost all units. If the weapon is mentioned in brackets, then this is the main reason, but certainly not the only one.

INF
Geus
Barbary Corsair
Pikeman
Crossbow
Halberdier
Fusilier (Upgrades)
Partyzant (bow Arrow rifle, (colo) militia?)
Skirmisher
Musketeer
Line Infantry
Hessian Jaeger
Highlander
Swiss Pikeman (rename+design to Reisläufer)
Reislaufer (rename+design to Langspießer)
Hand Gunner

CAV
Dragoon
Hussar
Uhlan (sword Arrow lance)
Black Rider (Arrow (Deutscher) Reiter\Harquebusier\Ironsides)
Lancer
Saxon Cavalry (Arrow Garde du Corps)
Cuirassier
Stradiot
Mameluk
Ruyter

ART
Petard




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As you can see: AoE3 is bundle of crap units and the original NE never cared about that.

Which changes would you support? How much should NE change?

Please tell us!
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Mr Bean
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:41 am    Post subject:

I agree with this, as NE really doesn't fit its name.
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President Washington
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:17 am    Post subject:

Maybe the name needs to be changed, then. It seems like most of the new units are on that list! The mod, despite it's name, is really more of a European mod than a Napoleonic mod.
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Gustav II Adolf
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:01 am    Post subject:

Great list and great iniative.

Replace all x-bow and bow units; they bug me the most.
Teutonic knight, elmeti and cond should also go.
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Gustav II Adolf
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:13 am    Post subject:

As for the name:
AoE III: The Old World.
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Mr Bean
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:37 am    Post subject:

Or European Wars, but there are 3 asian civs... replace them!
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AQUA
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:34 pm    Post subject:

Hello guys!
First of all: I think Napoleonic Era is a very nice expansion for AoE III. But you are right, some units seem to be out of place-as long as you call your mod "Napoleonic Era". Why don't you call it War and Peace/La guerre et la paix and divide it into the different ages:
You start as an explorer during the renaissance (I), fight with archaic units in the thirty-years-war (II), introduce standing armies as an absolutistic (?) ruler (III) and end up fighting la révolution francais and Napoleon (IV+V).

If you want to focus on Napoleon it's quit difficult and boring in my opinion. You will end up with the same units for every nation-just the color of their uniforms will be different. (I think that's one reason why AOE III focuses on exploration and colonisation. There you can mix up everything from nearly all over the world)
But if you split you can keep your doppelsoldners and pikemen-but still have skirmishers, musketeers and dragoons-just later.

PS: Have I missed something?-I never saw any Tiralleurs and Chasseurs...
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Harkimo
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:45 pm    Post subject:

I agree with the list to 100%.
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The Dude
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:50 pm    Post subject:

AQUA wrote:
Hello guys!
First of all: I think Napoleonic Era is a very nice expansion for AoE III. But you are right, some units seem to be out of place-as long as you call your mod "Napoleonic Era". Why don't you call it War and Peace/La guerre et la paix and divide it into the different ages:
You start as an explorer during the renaissance (I), fight with archaic units in the thirty-years-war (II), introduce standing armies as an absolutistic (?) ruler (III) and end up fighting la révolution francais and Napoleon (IV+V).

If you want to focus on Napoleon it's quit difficult and boring in my opinion. You will end up with the same units for every nation-just the color of their uniforms will be different. (I think that's one reason why AOE III focuses on exploration and colonisation. There you can mix up everything from nearly all over the world)
But if you split you can keep your doppelsoldners and pikemen-but still have skirmishers, musketeers and dragoons-just later.

PS: Have I missed something?-I never saw any Tiralleurs and Chasseurs...

I like. Just needs a better more intimidating name. lol I still stand by With Fire and Sword or Europe Total War lol.
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President Washington
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:27 am    Post subject:

AQUA wrote:
Hello guys!
First of all: I think Napoleonic Era is a very nice expansion for AoE III. But you are right, some units seem to be out of place-as long as you call your mod "Napoleonic Era". Why don't you call it War and Peace/La guerre et la paix and divide it into the different ages:
You start as an explorer during the renaissance (I), fight with archaic units in the thirty-years-war (II), introduce standing armies as an absolutistic (?) ruler (III) and end up fighting la révolution francais and Napoleon (IV+V).

If you want to focus on Napoleon it's quit difficult and boring in my opinion. You will end up with the same units for every nation-just the color of their uniforms will be different. (I think that's one reason why AOE III focuses on exploration and colonisation. There you can mix up everything from nearly all over the world)
But if you split you can keep your doppelsoldners and pikemen-but still have skirmishers, musketeers and dragoons-just later.

PS: Have I missed something?-I never saw any Tiralleurs and Chasseurs...


I think that overdoes it, but I wouldn't mind time-based names instead of obscure ones.

Er.... what about:
I = Renaissance, with limited military
II = Thirty Years War
III = Seven Years War
IV = Napoleonic Wars
V = Rest of Europe
All Tech = Turn of the Century
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AQUA
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:48 am    Post subject:

I don't care 'bout the names Wink I care 'bout the units Smile
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SAOL
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:30 pm    Post subject:

As I've said before, I think is is a pity to remove archaic units just because they weren't part of the Napoleonic Era. Indeed, if you look at the expansion packs released for AOE they don't remove all elements that don't fit in under the tag, such as the entire set of American maps in TAD.

Going down that track - wouldn't it be prudent to delete the Aztec and Inca civs - since they hadn't existed for a long time? The Asian civs and the Iroquois has a rather feeble connection too, so those should probably be removed as well.

It is rather an expansion into, not a narrowing to. The name can mean either, and I think it is a pity to go for the narrow one, which would make the game more homogeneous. With a time span of some twenty years, the entire concept of advancing in age, for instance, becomes redundant and questionable. Why must every age be representative of the Napoleonic era? I've always seen it as though the Napoleonic Era begins with the fourth or fifth age.

The gears and functions of Age of Empires are not meant to make a game that is insanely historically accurate; no matter how realistic or in-tune you make the units the engine will always make it very obvious that it is a game - not even a whiff of a poor simulator.

A compromise would be to make some units untrainable after a certain age.
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Mr Bean
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:11 am    Post subject:

SAOL wrote:
As I've said before, I think is is a pity to remove archaic units just because they weren't part of the Napoleonic Era. Indeed, if you look at the expansion packs released for AOE they don't remove all elements that don't fit in under the tag, such as the entire set of American maps in TAD.

Going down that track - wouldn't it be prudent to delete the Aztec and Inca civs - since they hadn't existed for a long time? The Asian civs and the Iroquois has a rather feeble connection too, so those should probably be removed as well.

It is rather an expansion into, not a narrowing to. The name can mean either, and I think it is a pity to go for the narrow one, which would make the game more homogeneous. With a time span of some twenty years, the entire concept of advancing in age, for instance, becomes redundant and questionable. Why must every age be representative of the Napoleonic era? I've always seen it as though the Napoleonic Era begins with the fourth or fifth age.

The gears and functions of Age of Empires are not meant to make a game that is insanely historically accurate; no matter how realistic or in-tune you make the units the engine will always make it very obvious that it is a game - not even a whiff of a poor simulator.

A compromise would be to make some units untrainable after a certain age.


not delete,but change them!
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sufjanfan
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 6:38 am    Post subject: Re: The Evil Unit List (EUL)

Quote:
These units could actually be easily removed for historical reasons, they don't match the Napoleonic time. Sadly I can't put them into any previous grade, cause their removal might lead to extreme changes of gameplay.

INF
Pikeman
Crossbow
Halberdier
Rodelero
Doppelsoldner
Longbowman
Swiss Guard
Janissary
Geus
Landsknecht
Barbary Corsair
Pavise
Swiss Pikeman


CAV
Oprichnik
Ruyter
Mameluk

ART
Leather Cannon

Yikes, this would not only lead to extreme changes of gameplay, but the mod would become more of a total conversion mod, especially considering some of the other questions you brought up. You would probably lose some fans, gain others, but who knows? This could either kill the mod or revive.
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Gustav II Adolf
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:15 am    Post subject:

The pavise could be replaced by a gangster merc armed with a 'lupara'. Same stats and maybe a smal dmg area.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:37 am    Post subject:

Make a new mod called Napoleonic Era 2 !
Then do everything as we like.

I suggest these:

1.replace all asian civs, China to Austria, Japan to Prussia and India to Italy.The list of civs are : French,Austrian,Russian,Prussian,Spanish,Greece,Ottoman,Egyptian,Dutchman,Swiss,Poles,Italian,British,Swedish,Denmark

2.Replace all ancient units. I want you to let a unit get only one appearance, just like I have done in AOD mod. Veteran or Guard improvement won't change their appearance now.
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