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SAOL
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:52 am    Post subject:

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Idk, it just feels like a waste of resources and time to use them when you can get a much better ratio with heavier troops.
True, but at the same time artillery is slow and expensive. If you have too much of it you will be run over in the end anyway.

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I know - but it just happens... It may be because AI spams cheap units. (Pikemen)
One thing might be that all the units try to attack the same enemy unit, which leads to pathing problems and them just standing there soaking up problems. If you hold down Alt GR when issuing the attack order the units will attack the enemy that is closest to them instead.
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checanos
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:19 am    Post subject:

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It may be because AI spams cheap units. (Pikemen)

but a full army of most cavalry units (when upgraded to a certain extent) can beat pikemen (with the exception for Spain since they can fully upgrade their pikemen)
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:03 pm    Post subject:

A fully upgraded cav army will defeat a not-at all upgraded pike army yes. They will not to so with terrible efficiency though. If the enemy only is spamming pikes it is never a good idea to counter with cav.
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Harkimo
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:36 pm    Post subject:

On the other hand, you can get twice as many pikes as hussars.

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One thing might be that all the units try to attack the same enemy unit, which leads to pathing problems and them just standing there soaking up problems. If you hold down Alt GR when issuing the attack order the units will attack the enemy that is closest to them instead.


Thnx, I'll make sure to remember that and use it next time I play.
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checanos
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:30 pm    Post subject:

I find that the best way to beat melee heavy infantry is to have other melee heavy infantry units and skirmishers I send the melee units ahead to keep the enemy HF busy and the skirmishers behind shooting because so many times HF can beat skirmishers when they are alone (especially ronins and doppelsolders). any other strategies?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:55 pm    Post subject:

Dutch "Nassauer" aka fast Helebardiers are especially good at the task, they are sufficiently fast to storm forward and kill the skirms with their superior melee skills.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:37 am    Post subject:

Harkimo wrote:
Thnx, I'll make sure to remember that and use it next time I play.
It's good for ranged units too, as it makes them spread the fire out over the line instead of them all shooting at the unit you clicked, causing some terrible overkill. It's the lazy man's way to micromanagement. lol The downside is that they sometimes turn or shoot in the 'wrong' direction, because there are some targets in that direction. If all units were of equal priority to kill that wouldn't be a problem, however that's not the case.

Ca Putt wrote:
Dutch "Nassauer" aka fast Helebardiers are especially good at the task, they are sufficiently fast to storm forward and kill the skirms with their superior melee skills.
Nassauers are gold. It's a pity that the coffee trade tech makes them slower, rendering the speed bonus you get from the HC of much less significance. But once they are in they tear down pretty much anything. They are like angry ants grinding away relentlessly.

Quote:
I find that the best way to beat melee heavy infantry is to have other melee heavy infantry units and skirmishers I send the melee units ahead to keep the enemy HF busy and the skirmishers behind shooting because so many times HF can beat skirmishers when they are alone (especially ronins and doppelsolders). any other strategies?
Musketeers mixed with grenadiers tend to work pretty well versus almost everything, at least if the blast radius of the grenades have been upgraded with the arsenal tech.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:43 am    Post subject:

Quote:

Nassauers are gold. It's a pity that the coffee trade tech makes them slower, rendering the speed bonus you get from the HC of much less significance. But once they are in they tear down pretty much anything. They are like angry ants grinding away relentlessly.
a Pity really, Oh you people of ES thou art quite Harsh and of twisted humor!
Quote:
Musketeers mixed with grenadiers tend to work pretty well versus almost everything, at least if the blast radius of the grenades have been upgraded with the arsenal tech.
eh? both get countered by skirms and cannons, at least in a fair fight, if your grenadiers get in range before the skirms fire it could go differently.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:28 pm    Post subject:

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eh? both get countered by skirms and cannons, at least in a fair fight, if your grenadiers get in range before the skirms fire it could go differently.
I did say "pretty well versus almost everything", not "excellent versus everything".

In the particular scenario of facing skirmishers and cannon with a musketeer and grenadier mix I would put all or most of the muskets in melee mode at once. That will draw the fire of the skirmishers as well as disturb them, allowing the grenadiers to pot a few in, usually to the demise of the skirmishers. Similarly the confusion can render the cannon less effective, allowing both the grenadiers and the muskets (who has enough hand damage to be a threat to cannon in quite small numbers already) to get to them.

Back in the day when I played more online I was always surprised by how bad people were at using their musketeers in mele. The practical thing with the unit is after all that it excels at being decent at most things rather than being very good at one specific thing. If you only ever use them in ranged mode you're not fully exploiting their potential.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject:

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when I played more online I was always surprised by how bad people were at using their musketeers in mele
I know right! I was playing vs a British player and I was French. I was using Cuirassiers and he switched from using musketeers (31x3=93) to pikemen (8x5=40) and I was like "come on its simple math" lol
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:57 am    Post subject:

That's only if you actually do the maths lol
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject:

The pure fact that the Pikeman HAS a huge spear encourages a lot of people to think they are superior cav stoppers.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:16 pm    Post subject:

Well, they are. In age II. Swiss pikemen are pretty good though out.
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