Modding Report #17
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
 
   Forum Index -> News
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SAOL
Emperor
Emperor


Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 23251
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 9:09 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
I try to see shipments as reinforcements and colonies as towns.
Sure. I can't think of a much better name anyway. Razz

Quote:
Banner armies will be unique to the HRE, I was rather considering having banner armies that come from Prussia or Austria.
Oh thank god Rolling Eyes

It could feel a bit strange to have banner armies from a potential enemy though, just as it is strange to ally with your enemy at the consulate if you're playing an Asian civ. The consulate is more confusing though, as you could see a banner army as a selection of mercenaries without specific loyalty or a group of runover insurgents.
_________________
Join
WWLLUASCLWPJ
We Who Loathe Long or Unnecessary Abbreviations and Similar Clusters of Letters Without Proper Justification

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Skype Name
peugeot407
Councillor
Councillor


Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1734
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 12:19 am    Post subject:

If only I was as proficient at creating particle files as Peter... Mr. Green

More seriously: Fantastic textures, loved the lot. I must say I like the idea of the Spy. It never really occured to me how odd a spy looks that deliberately dresses up quite conspicuous, but it is of course ridiculous, and your Spy looks so much better for it...


peugeot407
_________________
SAOL wrote: "North America, South America, pish posh they're the same.
Spawn of greater nations."





Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Hoop Thrower
Councillor
Councillor


Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 744
Location: Chile

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 3:49 am    Post subject:

I agree with Peugeot, this Spy looks much more realistic, even if it may make it look less characteristic, I guess it'll look unique enough as to distinguish it easily...

Lots of unit changes I see there. One thing I wonder is: If the Organ gun was replaced with the howitzer, what's going to be the name of the update for the mortar now?
Also, I guess the Netherlands will have no UUs now? At least historically they didn't have any particularly characteristic unit. So it wouldn't be much of a surprise really. I wonder how much would this affect their gameplay though (Ruyters are a big reason of why Dutch work in aoe3).
Same with Portugal, I guess you could include the ordenanças, but then again, Caçadores are also kind of out of timeline.
Those Banner Mercenaries are some... odd thing, it's actually surprising such a simple idea hasn't been implemented yet. Not that it's bad, quite the contrary actually.

Good job on all these things in all cases, it shows you've worked a lot since your last update! Wink

Finally Does Verlonere Haufen mean what I think I mean? Topmodel
_________________

Quote:
Work hard? No, it is a game rather than a work; interesting rather than hard.


Visit Wotta!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Charger24
Continental Marine
Continental Marine


Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 92
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 4:28 am    Post subject: Re: Modding Report #17

It makes me sad that so many units are being thrown away. I always liked the Dutch and Portuguese UU's, even if they were a little "out there" historically. Crying or Very sad

I'm sure you guys will replace them with even better versions, though.
_________________
Charger24





Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ca Putt
NE Assistant
NE Assistant


Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 3460
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 10:40 am    Post subject:

Quote:
(Ruyters are a big reason of why Dutch work in aoe3)
I told him but he would not listen^^

Quote:
Verlonere Haufen
Indeed, it means lost heap. Or as you would put it today assault team Mr. Green
_________________
Imagine not that these four walls contain the Mighty Owl of Thebes. For, gentles all, beauty sits most closely to them it can construe
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Harkimo
Emperor
Emperor


Joined: 10 May 2009
Posts: 7801

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject:

Every time I see a report, I get the weirdest feeling of awesome-game. Sort of when I played AC for the first time...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Tilanus Commodor
NE Commander
NE Commander


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 5081
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 2:22 pm    Post subject:

peugeot407 wrote:
If only I was as proficient at creating particle files as Peter... Mr. Green

More seriously: Fantastic textures, loved the lot. I must say I like the idea of the Spy. It never really occured to me how odd a spy looks that deliberately dresses up quite conspicuous, but it is of course ridiculous, and your Spy looks so much better for it...


peugeot407

You know what is weird? I haven't made any new textures for this report, but few people say they really like the textures. All I did was taking existing, original content. That's so hilarious! lol

It shows, not every unit needs a new texture. Modulation is a powerful method when you need it. Wink

About the spy I was already thinking his camouflage a step further. It would be odd for realism, but effective in gameplay, if a) he would have no true player colour (only visible on minimap) and b) may not even be a human, but a fake animal or fake tree. I haven't done that yet though, lol, cause I want to rethink that idea for some time.

Hoop Thrower wrote:
Lots of unit changes I see there. One thing I wonder is: If the Organ gun was replaced with the howitzer, what's going to be the name of the update for the mortar now?

The Mortar upgrades are now a lil weird, they are "improved mortar" and "imperial mortar". Not my final choice, but this should work for the moment.

Quote:
Also, I guess the Netherlands will have no UUs now? At least historically they didn't have any particularly characteristic unit. So it wouldn't be much of a surprise really. I wonder how much would this affect their gameplay though (Ruyters are a big reason of why Dutch work in aoe3).

I disagree here with Ruyters being the ace of the Dutch. The ace of the Dutch was always their continuous stream of gold and less the units they had. I noticed I forgot to mention that in exchange for Ruyter and Geus, the Dutch get the Dragoon and the Musketeer though. No idea why I didn't put that in news.

Dutch look like a fair standard civ to me with great strength in fields of economy, artillery and naval warfare. That's how I planned them. If you remember AoE2 and AoE1 you will also understand, that a lack of a unique unit doesn't mean, that a civ can't offer units with unique advantages. Thinking of units such as Saracen Cav Archers, Mongol Hussars, Japanese/Goth M@A, etc.

Quote:
Same with Portugal, I guess you could include the ordenanças, but then again, Caçadores are also kind of out of timeline.
Those Banner Mercenaries are some... odd thing, it's actually surprising such a simple idea hasn't been implemented yet. Not that it's bad, quite the contrary actually.

Caçadores are fine, they're in timeline and the Ports can have them. Maybe he'll be merged into sharpshooters or be RG, but that's all cosmetics, I can promise you the Ports will keep the advantages of Caçadores. Ordenanças is on my screen, just not sure yet how to implement them.

SAOL wrote:
Quote:
Banner armies will be unique to the HRE, I was rather considering having banner armies that come from Prussia or Austria.
Oh thank god Rolling Eyes

It could feel a bit strange to have banner armies from a potential enemy though, just as it is strange to ally with your enemy at the consulate if you're playing an Asian civ. The consulate is more confusing though, as you could see a banner army as a selection of mercenaries without specific loyalty or a group of runover insurgents.

It's not as strange as you think. Prussia and Austria were originally part of the Holy Roman Empire and they had the same duties as all other German states, which includes contributing troops to the Reichsarmee.
Also, the Prussian army had lots of deserters. From a historical pov it's absolutely unproblematic. And in view of gamedesign, it adds diversity, but may indeed also offer room for laming. So that's why they haven't been included yet, but maybe they come in shape of a unrepeatable regular shipment.
_________________
Napoleonic Era Project Leader


** Support me to support NE **

Test your Age of Empires knowledge in my
Grand Age of Empires quiz! King Green!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
SAOL
Emperor
Emperor


Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 23251
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
It's not as strange as you think. Prussia and Austria were originally part of the Holy Roman Empire and they had the same duties as all other German states, which includes contributing troops to the Reichsarmee. [...] From a historical pov it's absolutely unproblematic.
I know, but that doesn't mean there isn't a strange feel to it. Reality is sometimes just as strange as fiction.
_________________
Join
WWLLUASCLWPJ
We Who Loathe Long or Unnecessary Abbreviations and Similar Clusters of Letters Without Proper Justification

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Skype Name
Silmariel
Conquistador
Conquistador


Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 356
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 6:02 pm    Post subject:

A note to the team: native units (such as Brunswickers, Gebirgsschützen and Horse Grenadiers) do not cost population!

So the Kurhannover and the Württemberg banner armies do not actually have reduced pop cost but cost more pop.

Instead of messing around with the population I would suggest to keep native units away from the banner armies a but make them cost only one shipment and some ressources (not more then two different ones).
As there are always hc cards that send natives you could make a special ones that enable additional native units with every age IV banner army.

And a question: Will the Germans have all the banner army units (Grenadiers, Garde du corps, Chevauleger etc.) available as regular units? Or how will they age up (mainly concerns age V)?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tilanus Commodor
NE Commander
NE Commander


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 5081
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 11:35 pm    Post subject:

Silmariel wrote:
A note to the team: native units (such as Brunswickers, Gebirgsschützen and Horse Grenadiers) do not cost population!

Actually they don't, but you have to give them a minimum pop if you do not only reduce the costs of the banner army, but also the pop. More dramatic would be the laming factor that comes from these armies. Thinking you could ship an army with generally lowered pop that also - in addition! - contains units with no pop at all, is highly influencing the maximum number of units the HRE could maintain. This would be devastating.

Quote:
So the Kurhannover and the Württemberg banner armies do not actually have reduced pop cost but cost more pop.

Due to the useful hints from Ca Putt I just did some pop testing concerning these banner armies and thanks to him I discovered that weird phenomenon, that the pop costs you assign to a banner army only counts in the period of actually hiring and sending these troops, however, once the troops arrived, the population costs will re-adjust themselves again to the correct values (!). That means either lowering or raising the amount of currently taken pop space.

Example:
If I send a banner army that has been assigned the value of 10 for pop costs, but has - in view of its members - actually a pop of 25 (so 15 more), then the game won't realize this fact in the moment of hiring this army, but only when it arrived. That means in the moment of hiring I add 10pop to the pop count and once it's been there it will have 25pop added.

This also works the inverse way. So if I have assigned a pop of 10 and the real pop is only 5, I need - for hiring these troops - more free pop space available than the army will actually take up once they arrived.

Isn't that freaky!

I was actually assuming the single unit's pop would be knocked out by the pop cost of the banner army! I was mistaken and thus I have to rebalance the entire costs of these armies. If anyone has suggestions for an interesting cost concept, feel free to post them here!

Quote:
Instead of messing around with the population I would suggest to keep native units away from the banner armies a but make them cost only one shipment and some ressources (not more then two different ones).
As there are always hc cards that send natives you could make a special ones that enable additional native units with every age IV banner army.

I'd like to keep the combination of German natives and German banner armies and really have them as significant factor inside them and not just as addition. I'd rather try to find a compromise in costs than redoing all the banner armies for the sake of "correct pop", cause that was a quite strenuous type of research and design.

Since I just have found how pop and banner armies really work together, I'll have to rethink their pricing and just thinking about the "pop penalty" for banner armies that contain natives that usually cost no pop, I think it is a good concept for these armies to keep up.
Natives, even if they usually cost no pop, are not to confuse with "free units". They make a difference on the battlefield and in view of the maximum size of armies.
Whereas natives coming from native villages have a build limit, natives coming from shipments and banner armies don't. Therefore the taxing of these troops looks fine to me, everything else would be an unreasoned gift to players of the HRE and an unfair advantage all the way.

Quote:
And a question: Will the Germans have all the banner army units (Grenadiers, Garde du corps, Chevauleger etc.) available as regular units? Or how will they age up (mainly concerns age V)?

Except the Rottmeyster and Garde du Corps, all units are also available in a regular version. I do, however, still think about having some kind of penalty for them too, just like in case of the German musketeer. Wink
_________________
Napoleonic Era Project Leader


** Support me to support NE **

Test your Age of Empires knowledge in my
Grand Age of Empires quiz! King Green!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Charger24
Continental Marine
Continental Marine


Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 92
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:07 am    Post subject:

Any updates or progress on the saved game issue?
_________________
Charger24





Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hoop Thrower
Councillor
Councillor


Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 744
Location: Chile

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:11 pm    Post subject:

I'm actually more surprised about how much it took you to realize that thing related to banner armies. Yeah, I've toyed with them a lot, and in the end what matters is the cost of the banner army as the proto unit, not as the units it actually produces, it makes sense once you get how they work. Smile

Now, for some real commentaries, since Dutch now will get Musketeers, it means they'll finally lose the tech that sends 30 Stadhouders (That doesn't make sense in any way imaginable lol )

Oh, and speaking of banner armies, will the Reichstag units have banner army tags in proto or not? (Trust me, this changes a lot the way they work)
_________________

Quote:
Work hard? No, it is a game rather than a work; interesting rather than hard.


Visit Wotta!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Tilanus Commodor
NE Commander
NE Commander


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 5081
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:26 pm    Post subject:

Hoop Thrower wrote:
I'm actually more surprised about how much it took you to realize that thing related to banner armies. Yeah, I've toyed with them a lot, and in the end what matters is the cost of the banner army as the proto unit, not as the units it actually produces, it makes sense once you get how they work. Smile

It's been the first time I've coded banner armies in fact. ^^

Quote:
Now, for some real commentaries, since Dutch now will get Musketeers, it means they'll finally lose the tech that sends 30 Stadhouders (That doesn't make sense in any way imaginable lol )

Yes, right.

Quote:
Oh, and speaking of banner armies, will the Reichstag units have banner army tags in proto or not? (Trust me, this changes a lot the way they work)

They do have that tag, what would happen if it'd not be there?
_________________
Napoleonic Era Project Leader


** Support me to support NE **

Test your Age of Empires knowledge in my
Grand Age of Empires quiz! King Green!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Hoop Thrower
Councillor
Councillor


Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 744
Location: Chile

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:40 pm    Post subject:

You'll be able to train the banner armies in blocks of 5, it's an amazing way to amass an army in no time...
_________________

Quote:
Work hard? No, it is a game rather than a work; interesting rather than hard.


Visit Wotta!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Tilanus Commodor
NE Commander
NE Commander


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 5081
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:07 pm    Post subject:

I see. Well, I don't know if I would want that. Training armies in blocks of 5 would enable to pump them super quick. I'm sure the better online players won't like it, since it's truly a huge advantage.
_________________
Napoleonic Era Project Leader


** Support me to support NE **

Test your Age of Empires knowledge in my
Grand Age of Empires quiz! King Green!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
peugeot407
Councillor
Councillor


Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1734
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:38 pm    Post subject:

I'm not supposed to reveal why of course (I can assure you it has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the Byzantines), but I find it quite funny that even I have been coding banner armies before one of the great Ts...


peugeot407
_________________
SAOL wrote: "North America, South America, pish posh they're the same.
Spawn of greater nations."





Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> News All times are GMT
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Page 2 of 9

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group | Page design by Tilanus Commodor & michfrm.