Modding Report #20
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Tilanus Commodor
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Joined: 03 Apr 2007
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Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:41 am    Post subject:

David54181 wrote:
Quote:
Better post it here.

I will get on that as soon as possible. Do you want just the names of the techs and cards or what?

Exactly. Smile Post the name and the effect, maybe the costs if they matter and what else annoys you about it. Smile

Quote:
I wonder, did you install the 7.1 Hotfix as well? I think this was fixed in there, if not, your problem looks quite new or .. individual to me.

Yes I installed the hotfix, other people I play with seem to have that problem too.[/quote]
I'll have a look on this.

@ARG 4 EVER: That is known and will be fixed.

Smorley_7 wrote:

I was actually suggesting that the Scots (and other minors) could be used on other euro maps and not just their homeland. Example; France had few Scottish regiments and many Scottish immigrants, so if a map were ever to take place in a French region you could Scots in it. I just think it's a waste of a minor civ to only appear on one map. But I know maps are long and hard to do, so, never mind. Only maps you reveled that I think you could get away with Scots is maybe Gibraltar. That or maybe some Americas maps where there were large Scottish immigration.

There are no other European maps yet that'd suit it, but you're right about the "waste" of resources. I'll think about that, but Gibraltar surely won't have them.

Quote:
I think I worded that all wrong. I was trying to say is fitting in Demi-lancers and Harquebursiers would be arbitrary to do mechanically. Then again I don't know exactly what your NE unit mechanics are.

That's exactly the challenge, isn't it? Wink They'd just not fit as Swiss UUs at all..
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Ca Putt
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:42 pm    Post subject:

We can still add them as shipable native mercs.
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David54181
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Joined: 14 Jan 2013
Posts: 5
Location: United States

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:39 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Exactly. Post the name and the effect, maybe the costs if they matter and what else annoys you about it.

I'll post Civ by Civ, then the buildings and techs available for each civ.

In general: There are too many instant spawning units (only a few civs should have that). Some units are too strong against certain things (like the multiplier against certain units is too much) (I'll explain civ by civ). The Riding School Card should NOT allow decrease light infantry training time, infantry don't ride horses... And also for the Mass Cavalry Church upgrade. Artillery regiments in the Capitol should be lowered to about -25-35%.


Swiss: Switzerland is a very unique and fun civ to play. The problem I have with it: the Followers are too strong, the hand infantry is way too powerful and quick spawning, if Followers are allowed to make Berry Bushes then they shouldn't be incredibly good at gathering from them (just makes it more fair), there is trouble getting to 200 pop cap ( Not enough tents).

Swiss Cards: TEAM Peasant Militia: Hand Infantry Train Faster (-35%) this card is very useful, but it should not be available in Age 1 and the severity should be lowered (Perhaps -15% or -25%)
Swiss Clockword: All upgrades and building are completed faster, and units train slighty faster. General -60% is a bit too much for age 2, perhaps down to 35-45 or so. The rest is fine.
Talgenossenchaft: all mercenary unit shipments are cheaper, you can train Swiss Pike at Saloon and Headquarters. Perhaps move this to a later age, with all the upgrades Swiss Pikemen are very good at this age.
Elite Follow Corps: Followers father all resources faster. Followers already gather really fast, perhaps lower this to 8% (Since it is EVERY resource)
Marching Order: Follower and infantry speed increased( 15%). Perhaps change to 10% since it deals with ALL infantry and the Swiss relly on infantry.
Gewalthaufen: Heavy infantry does more damage agaisnt Cav and Light Infantry, and increased range for Reislaufers and Swiss Pikemen. Maybe lower the severity for this, hand infantry are already insanely strong against both Cav and Light Infantry
Battle of Marignano: Swiss Pike damage and hitpoints greatly increased. With the upgrades from the saloon and all other cards, the Swiss Pike are over powered, perhaps lower this cards severity or make it to where it makes the Swiss Pike cost more coin(maybe 25%)
Undermining Techniques: Petards and Sappers can use stealth. I think this card is a huge annoyance. Do what you want with it.
Follower Combat: Your followers are much stronger in combat (Hp and Damage by 50%). This card is TOO much. Followers are insanely strong! This card should be removed or lowered greatly. (10-15%)
Great Camp: Bivouacs and tents are cheaper,stronger, and built more quickly. This card is nice, but not for Age 1, it is too much. Just lower the severity of it and change the Age.

Germany: This civ is wonderful upgrade from the previous one. But compared to other NE civs, it isn't all that good. Problems: Compared to other civs, Germany has no instant training units. Maybe add a card that decreases all by 10-15%. The Reichstag Troops are the slowest, maybe make a card that decreases the time or allows the troops to be made from barracks and stables.
If the Katsbalger is a Heavy Infantry musket troops, it should not have a multiplier agaisnt Heavy Infantry, perhaps remove that but add more ranged damage (like a normal Musketeer troop)

Prussia: Overall wonderful civ! The Landwehrs are not actually that strong as what they seem... I don't know if that should be changed.

Prussian Cards: General War Commissariat: make additional military buildings and they become cheaper. This is a good card, but it should be available in maybe age 2 or 3 and then increase the Build limit for the buildings.
General Staff: Prussian unique unit combat ability improved. The only problem with this is the Death's Head Hussar's speed change, .25 speed addition is too much ( they are already fast) Either remove that and add a hitpoints or damage boost.
Spanish Riding School: all cavalry train and move faster. Perhapds lower the severity of this card, instead of -40% do around -25%.
Landwehrfahen: Landwehrs are more expensive and train slower, but gather rates increased greatly. 50% for additional train time and cost is fine, but perhaps move the gather rates up to 25% or 30%.

France: Nothing really wrong with them. Except that villager bug in the town center, it spawns villagers instead of the unique French settler.
Also what is up with the Chasseur and Grognard? Why do they cost shipments? That is annoying. Increase the cost of them atleast but dont let them cost shipments. Also that Blockade Tech at the university should be removed.

Italy: Not much wrong with them actually. They are incredibly unique and fun to play. I will get back to you if I find anything wrong with them.

Sweden: This is probably the most over powered civ out there. it makes the French on TAD look like a little child. Don't get me wrong, Sweden rocks! but some things should be removed and edited. The major problem is the overpowered bonus the units receive from the Torp upgrades, take those Aura upgrades out completely or lower their severity extremely.

Sweden Cards: Team Early Horse Artillery: available earlier and trains much faster. Just no... this is too much. Horse Artillery is too strong and it being earlier and training faster?? No. Remove this or decrease the train time by a lot.
Reformation: Villagers gather resources faster. I would say lower this to about 10 or 12%.
Great Northern Forests: Villagers and Torps gather wood faster (30%). Perhaps lower this to 20 or 25% or make torps cost more wood to build.
Allotment System: military units train faster. Perhaps lower this to 20 or 25%
Cronstedt Reforms: Artillery and seige units move faster (20%). Perhaps lower this to 15% or 10%
Svea Arteriregemente: heavy inf do more damage (25%). Maybe lower the damage to 15% and add 10% to hitpoints.
Savolax Jagerregemente: improves speed of skirmishers and enables stealth. 25% speed???? holy moley! Lower that to around 10 or 15%
Northern Warriors: allows training of Swedish Fusiliers and Hackapells at Saloon. Perhaps lower the Damage and hitpoints bonus to about 10% because theyre already super strong.

Austria: I love this Civ, very cool. Again I believe the settlers are a little too cheap. But do with that what you want. I also think they need another Cav unit, Hussars and Dragoons are boring. I also think the RANGED multiplier for line infantry against light infantry and Cav should be lowered slightly. But then add the card Fencing School, to decrease the train time, because compared to other Civs, the infantry train VERY slow (other than Grenzers..).

Austrian Cards: House Of Habsburg: age upgrades cost less food and are completed more quickly. For this card, since its in Age 1. I think it should either make the age come faster, or lower food, not both.
TEAM Balkan Cavalry: Cavalry units train faster. Take off the Light Infantry train time.
Skirmishing Tactics: Grenzer Range and speed improved. Lower the speed to around .25
Military Frontier: Grenzers stealth, and recruit additional Grenzers and train faster. This is one of the weirdest cards I have seen. They should NOT be allowed to spawn on each other. Do they make love right in the field and spawn more Grenzer babies? That should be removed.

Poland: I don't see too much wrong with this civ in general. If i find anything I'll get back to you.

America: One of my favorites. Not much is wrong with them either. You should show if the Miners are better at mining that the Villagers, cause all it says is that they can fight. If i find anything, I'll let you know.

This is about it. Sorry again for complaining, I just would like to make this game more fair and fun for people. If I find anything I'll let you know. And also let me know what you changed and what you didn't change.
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Gustav II Adolf
Italian Utili
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Joined: 01 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:28 pm    Post subject:

I agree with most of what David54181 is saying. Especially the swedish fusilier and the swiss pikemen are in dire need of a nerf.
I do not, however, agree with the follower nerf. The followers is the only skirmisher the swiss gets and beeing a civ that lacks decent cav and artillery, they need a strong skirmisher to counter other skirmishers. If anything the followers should be made stronger against inf in general and perhaps more susceptible to hand cav attacks. Regarding the eco nerf of the follower, one can just notice that the swiss overall economy is in no way overpowered.
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject:

Wow, that was quick! Thanks a lot for the info, I appreciate it, but I will have to read later over it. It looks already good though, I know most of the shaky Swiss cases you mentioned from own games and I agree with them.

David54181 wrote:
I just would like to make this game more fair and fun for people

That's an honourable goal Wink

Quote:
If I find anything I'll let you know. And also let me know what you changed and what you didn't change.

If you're interested in balancing the NE civs, I can offer you a seat in the NE team. I highly value good analyzations. Smile
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Harkimo
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:25 pm    Post subject:

I think we could keep the Swedes over power, but, you'll have to cut their economies (Which actually is very historically accurate) instead.
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David54181
Settler
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Joined: 14 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:02 am    Post subject:

Quote:
If you're interested in balancing the NE civs, I can offer you a seat in the NE team. I highly value good analyzations.


That sounds wonderful! Would you like to email me with the info? I am still in high school and some days I may not be able to help. And I also seem to cancel the historical accuracy and just seem to go for the fairness in the game. Even then I might get stuff wrong.



Quote:
I do not, however, agree with the follower nerf. The followers is the only skirmisher the swiss gets and beeing a civ that lacks decent cav and artillery, they need a strong skirmisher to counter other skirmishers. If anything the followers should be made stronger against inf in general and perhaps more susceptible to hand cav attacks.


Counter other skirmishers? Cavalry is for that. And I believe Tilanus was doing something with the Swiss Cavalry in this next update. But I have been rushed by the Swiss Follower and they are very hard to fight back with some civs.

Quote:
I think we could keep the Swedes over power, but, you'll have to cut their economies (Which actually is very historically accurate) instead.


It may be accurate but it is very annoying. They already have good troops with the extra upgrades and various cards. And their economy is wonderful. YOU CAN MAKE MINES! Mines are very fast and cheap.
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Smorley_7
French Conscript
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Joined: 19 Jun 2012
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Location: US

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:07 am    Post subject:

Ca Putt wrote:
We can still add them as shipable native mercs.

I like that idea too. Down the road if any more euro minor civs are added they could be used. Maybe for some Italian city-states or something. That'd be cool.
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caveman909
NE Assistant
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Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Posts: 479
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:48 pm    Post subject:

caveman909 wrote:
Very impressive work Tilanus, don't know what to say Mr. Green

Quote:
Merci! How about recording some voices? lol


Hem, yeah, you know I've like 8 exams in January..^^
But I didnt forget the voices, and it's something I don't want to be crappy and made in like 10 secs. So probably in February you'll get some good records Smile

Speaking of Swiss, I personally think you could maybe make a building like a consulat, in which you could call back some swiss troops working for other countries, see what I mean? Like having 5-6 differents "swiss mercenary regiments" called back to help their country?

See more here (in french I know, but very interessant stuff):
http://histoirevivante.forumculture.net/t623p20-articles-de-l-anglais-borne-de-gap

Cause actually, what people are saying is pretty nonsense. Swiss Guards aren't that good against skirmishers (LI), and against a player whos massing them, without any good cavalery, you cannot only make cannons, see my point? I think swiss should get some special skirmisher, and the follower could be nerfed. I can do some research about swiss LI (or swiss cav, but will be more difficult since swiss prefer cows lol )

P.S. gathering from cows should have some bonus with Swiss in my opinion, since Switzerland was pretty much an "agriculture" eco country at this time. Topmodel
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khoin1
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:34 pm    Post subject:

Cow cavalry heh?
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:45 pm    Post subject:

caveman909 wrote:

Hem, yeah, you know I've like 8 exams in January..^^
But I didnt forget the voices, and it's something I don't want to be crappy and made in like 10 secs. So probably in February you'll get some good records Smile

That sounds pretty good. Smile

Quote:
Speaking of Swiss, I personally think you could maybe make a building like a consulat, in which you could call back some swiss troops working for other countries, see what I mean? Like having 5-6 differents "swiss mercenary regiments" called back to help their country?

Yes, so far I favored the HC as place for these regiments, but maybe a Consulate makes more sense. I need to check that.

Quote:
See more here (in french I know, but very interessant stuff):
http://histoirevivante.forumculture.net/t623p20-articles-de-l-anglais-borne-de-gap

It's a horrible read for me with online translation. I'd rather appreciate a lil summary of this.

Quote:
Cause actually, what people are saying is pretty nonsense. Swiss Guards aren't that good against skirmishers (LI), and against a player whos massing them, without any good cavalery, you cannot only make cannons, see my point? I think swiss should get some special skirmisher, and the follower could be nerfed. I can do some research about swiss LI (or swiss cav, but will be more difficult since swiss prefer cows lol )

Swiss Guard are HI, so they naturally lose to lots of skirms.

Quote:
P.S. gathering from cows should have some bonus with Swiss in my opinion, since Switzerland was pretty much an "agriculture" eco country at this time. Topmodel

I have found to good concept on cows and sheeps yet. But if there'll be, I'll remember that.

khoin1 wrote:
Cow cavalry heh?

If I ever get that work lol
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SAOL
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:08 pm    Post subject:

Caveman wrote:
P.S. gathering from cows should have some bonus with Swiss in my opinion, since Switzerland was pretty much an "agriculture" eco country at this time.
As opposed to? lol
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caveman909
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject:

Ok ok understood no cows bonuses with swiss lol
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Synecdoche
French Conscript
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Joined: 25 Sep 2012
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Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:36 am    Post subject:

I don't have time to go over the balance suggestions written in the wall of text far above, but anyone claiming France as the most abusable civ in TAD should have their balance claims taken with a grain of salt.
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dietermoreno1
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:11 am    Post subject:

Did you get villagers to auto gather from the wood plantation?

How did you do it? (post code)
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Kyohan
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Joined: 21 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:31 am    Post subject: Famely Name for King and Queens in Denmark is REX

ellow i am new here and thanks for a wonderfull version of Age of Empire 3

as in topic sir name for King and Queens in Denmark is Rex

sincerly Kyohan
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