Modding Report #20
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Chzchan
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:02 pm    Post subject:

Tilanus Commodor wrote:

Yes, it already is like that, but I want it to be more obvious and conscious to players and not have the "by the way" character of NE 2.01. So this is surely a cosmetic type of thing to explain how the civs are built up and less a change of design.

Do you actually see any reason why the second out of three upgrades was given a Royal status as opposed to the third and last upgrade?


Ah, okay. I understand.

Yeah, I found it strange.

Tilanus Commodor wrote:

Certainly, yes. I will not be able to do all civs at once. I'm yet uncertain if I'd disable the unfinished civs or keep them as they are. Most probably I'll apply the fundamental changes to all playable civs and keep them as they are. Apart from that, releasing civs step by step is a good ol' NE tradition!


Well if you get all of them standardized, you can have them all released in NE3 with slight, easy to code baseline changes that allow each civ to be told from another aside from the obvious differences in art.

This way you will just be throwing down a piece of clay for each and then using 3.01, 3.02 etc. to mold and form the respective pieces.

Tilanus Commodor wrote:

Yes, right now they do sound exactly like Grenzers yet. Their attack values differ more clearly though. Snaphaner do not counter artillery, they solely focus on HI (so LI is excepted). Apart from that they got different base damage and range. That already being some differences, I'll redesign the Grenzer anyway, because I dislike the current realization in the game. So they'll lose lots of their current traits in exchange for others.


Okay, so they'll become a shorter range stealth Skirmisher/Anarchist unit. That makes sense.

Tilanus Commodor wrote:

Next to militia units I could imagine making them trainable at Houses. While having content in Houses is not a new idea at all, I'd have to check yet if having Snaphaner in Houses in particular is a good thing. Actually I do not fancy unique ways recruitment for unique units, because sometimes it looks like feature creep and too much of trying to be like a simulation.


Hahaha, that sounds like an interesting plan. They would act as an early defense against rushes and the like that last as opposed to the temporary standard militia that every civ will have. That role definitely suits them historically based on what their cause was. Their stealth aspect would truly make them excel at this duty. Ambushing early rush parties while waiting in the shadows; that is if they have stealth that early, of course.

Just throwing out ideas is fun, but once they are on the table, they should be evaluated and thought through a bit more. You just preformed a good example of this.

Tilanus Commodor wrote:

I see you have already fallen in love with the idea to make the Snaphane as unique as possible, but I fear I need to destroy your dreams at this point, because these ideas are exactly of the same sort that made Grenzers so bloated and inflated. Wink


Hahaha, don't feel bad about it. These aren't my dreams, they are just concepts that pop into my head every now and then that I need to express with words or risk forgetting them. That one just came out of nowhere, so I felt the need to post it.

I enjoy coming up with ideas, but I will count on you and actual history to keep them in check so they don't go out of control. Wink

Tilanus Commodor wrote:

So far I consciously avoided an anti-villager bonus, but I gave them a fairly well building attack. While there were indeed thieves and criminals among them and robbery wasn't unusual either, another forumer once correctly pointed out that they were not unnecessarily cruel unlike Ottoman Bashi-bazouks who are known for one or the other occasional massacre.


Well, of course. Though they did have criminals in the ranks, the criminals made up a small percentage of them. I was just using it as starting point for creative ideas.

They were mostly peasants and militia if I remember correctly. There were also border guards as well if I am not mistaken.

Tilanus Commodor wrote:

Point taken on the Espingols, I'll certainly just go for Danish rockets then. Smile


Well, the Danish rockets were failures as they were incredibly inaccurate as opposed to the English ones that are actually seen in this game.

I do enjoy the idea of the Espingol, but it would need a different model in order to work historically. Maybe chop all the barrels but one off of the Organ Gun model, re-texture the barrel dark grey and give it some new sounds.

It doesn't need to look exactly the same as the ones in the pictures. For example, the Swedish Leather Cannon is a simple recycle of the Japanese Flaming Arrow, but without the arrow and the fire. Though some variations of the actualy Leather Cannon look similar to this recycle, not all of them did. It's all good, though.

Tilanus Commodor wrote:

What's at 1pm and 2pm? Nevermind, after this week I'll have more free time. During the uni days I'm online from 10am til 2am, sometimes even a lil longer. When not having uni days I usually go online between 1pm and 4pm and don't have a real limit.

I added you on Skype!


Are you referring to 1 PM and 2 PM here, or in the Fatherland? 1 PM and 2 PM in Germany is 4 AM and 5 AM here. 1 PM and 2 PM here is 10 PM and 11 PM in Germany.

Oh neat, okay.
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Janissary
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:31 pm    Post subject:

Amazing!! Surprised

I like the new Ottoman ideas its look awesome!! lol
Btw Tilanus i have a idea for you about the Ottoman units.
In the Ottoman Empire around 1500-1600 there was thousands of janisaries called The Elite janisaries they were the special elite troops of the Ottoman Sultan in a black janissarie suit with a gold mask. What about to make the elite Jans a unique unit for the Ottomans like the elite units of France?? (I forgot the names of them)

Some ideas for the elite jans
- They cost 5x more than the normal janisaries
- They cant be upgraded
- Only trainable in Age 4

In the first spoiler you can see a elite jannisary from Assassins Creed Revelations. And in the last spoiler another pic of the elite jans.

Spoiler:



Spoiler:





I hope you will add the elite jans in the next update Mr. Green Mr. Green

Btw add me on Skype ottosoldier35
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Harkimo
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:56 pm    Post subject:

5x? Are you sure?
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Janissary
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:09 pm    Post subject:

Harkimo wrote:
5x? Are you sure?


Yes? they were the strongest ottoman troops in the hole history, why not 5x more expensive than the normal jans lol lol
Okay maybe 3x more.. What do you think about it?
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Ca Putt
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:37 pm    Post subject:

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeellll I think I speak on behalf of Tilanus(aka "The NE Team") when I say that it is HIGHLY unlikely that the next version will feature that unit as a seperate unit.

Or as some people would say: no

Please review your proposal and think about why I will not post reasons not too follow your suggestion. (and there are plenty)
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Janissary
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:48 pm    Post subject:

Its just an idea to make the Ottomans more unique.. Wink
Anyway i know what you mean, if you reject my idea lol what can i say? You guys are the NE team, i just give some ideas ^^
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caveman909
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:41 pm    Post subject:

the best thing would just be that you keep the janissary as it is, but have a special upgrade age IV (like most of the unique units) and so they become black? Wouldnt that be a compromise?
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Janissary
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject:

What will Tilanus say about this actually?
I start a topic about it..
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Harkimo
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:04 pm    Post subject:

Perhaps a tech, and a retexture rather than a seperate unit?
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roy1012
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:34 pm    Post subject:

Harkimo wrote:
Perhaps a tech, and a retexture rather than a seperate unit?

A tech or a home city shipment in age 4 would probably be better than a seperate unit, but isnt his unit supposed to be an elite jannisary unit? then what if all of your units are these elite...
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Smorley_7
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:34 pm    Post subject:

That Janissary discussion brought up a question. In the Ottoman's section of the report, you don't mention the Janissary and state the role of the line infantry will be taken by the Nizam-i cedid. So what's going to happen to the Janissary?
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:15 pm    Post subject:

I didn't mention it, because the role is yet unclear. Janissaries will stay the base musketeer, if Nizams are some kind of Royal guard or yet another unit is exactly the point I haven't decided yet.
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Harkimo
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject:

Wouldn't that be a tad away from history?
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:33 pm    Post subject:

What in particular? Janissaries developing into Nizams? Depends, while these were rivals, the best of the janissaries joined the Nizam-i-cedid. So, there is a link between them. Surely they are different in military education and equipment, but they're the gross of elite infantry troops that fought for the Ottomans and in a game I don't like duplicate units. So I can either merge or separate them.
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Smorley_7
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:42 am    Post subject:

My vote would be having two different units. Maybe making the Janissary the ottoman equivalent of the musketeer and the Nizam-i-Cedid the fusilier.

I don't really like the idea of the Nizam-i-Cedid (is there a shorten version of that word?) being a RG. The N-i-C and the Janissary corp were rivals, like you said, but the main reason is I think the RG upgrade implies an elite status of the unit and N-i-C were just the new regulars while Janissary were still an (mostly) elite force. It just seems kind of backwards.

The N-i-C were line infantry of traditional European style. The Janissaries (or just older Ottoman tactics in general) relied on the individual marksmanship and didn't use lines or bayonets. So maybe some kind of mechanic that express the differentiation of their style would be really cool.
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roy1012
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:49 am    Post subject:

Perhaps giving the ottomans some variety in infantry, but I guess this just isn't the way.
Perhaps, BASHI BAZOUKS!?? lol
Maybe they can get a weaker musketeer simliar to the American Marine, cheap and weak
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