NE 2.1.7
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:18 pm    Post subject: NE 2.1.7

Salam, Hallo, Hello there people from all over the world! Mr. Green

Today should be a good day for everybody, because today is the release for NE 2.1.7 for PC & Mac! And for the first time we can finally provide you with beautifully designed installers for both platforms.

You can download NE 2.1.7 and read the full release notes on our downloads page:


(click to open download page)


Note on Windows installation:
PC users do not need to uninstall NE 2.1.6. You can just install NE 2.1.7 over NE 2.1.6.

NE ONLINE GAMING
If you want to play against other NE players, you can join this NE Online Group on Facebook (click) and
ask for matches. NE has been played so far via GameRanger, Hamachi and ESO.
fencing


Have a nice day and a Napoleonic Weekend! King Green!


The NE Team

Tilanus Commodor, kangcliff, JRussell, Da Bozz & Ca Putt
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SAOL
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:40 pm    Post subject:

Download isn't working! ARGH! Mad
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Harkimo
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:00 pm    Post subject:

It's working fine for me. Confused

Impressive job, nonetheless, T! I'll be expecting monthly releases from now on Razz
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Doppelsodner
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:05 am    Post subject:

Wow! It's amazing... I really loved the Germans.
However, I have a question.
The Thirty Years War tech works over doppelsoldners?
I researched it and it decreased the doppelsoldner's HP but didn't increase its damage.
I would like to know if only happened to me, thanks.

(Excuse me if my english is not as good, I hope that you understand)
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:05 am    Post subject:

Doppelsodner wrote:
Wow! It's amazing... I really loved the Germans.
However, I have a question.
The Thirty Years War tech works over doppelsoldners?
I researched it and it decreased the doppelsoldner's HP but didn't increase its damage.
I would like to know if only happened to me, thanks.

(Excuse me if my english is not as good, I hope that you understand)

Yes it does also slightly increase damage, code does not lie:

Wink

Since you have played the Germans already, did you notice any bugs with the Reichstag armies?
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Silmariel
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:06 pm    Post subject:

I hope you do not mind if I answer in his place.
What I noticed was:
-build limits for Reichsarmeen are not in effect. They are only in effect when they are queued up in the Reichstag.
-The new cards (Archduchy of Austria, Electorate of Brandenburg, Franconian Reichsritter [which has a really nice flavor. I was very sad not to be able to try it and to see how it works out] etc.) didn't show up in my deck when playing although I added them before. I tried several times.
-Settler shipments do not send Doppelsöldner
-The Mecklenburgian Politician grants an upgrade to dragoons instead of hussars.
-The cavalry-hp-shipment now only increases hussars hitpoints (as revealed in the release notes) but does not boost the warwagon.
-Austrian explorer lacks his Lederhose and looks like the British explorer now.


Some other things I noticed which are not really bugs but seemed odd:
-I thought Doppelsöldner were to be renamed as Landsknechte and vice versa?
-Spanish Riding School is still a German Shipment although it's obviously an Austrian institution
-Skirmishers Royal Guard upgrade is still the Prussian Rifleman. Not very fitting.
-The Reichsarmeen concept needs some rethinking. Although it's absolutely nice and flavorful it does not work from an balancing point of view. In my opinion they are too expeansive at the beginning and too weak and slowly training at the end of the game (might be due to the lack of the card that decreased train time). Gearing them more towards the chinese banner armies could be an option. Also swapping back the Württembergian contingent to the original form which involved horse artillery if I'm right (can't find the modding report atm) would be benefitting.

Over all those things, don't forget that I'm absolutely grateful for your work. Thank you very much.
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caveman909
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:07 pm    Post subject:

I had the same problem with the cards in the deck, but not with the Mecklenburgian aging Confused
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Silmariel
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:36 pm    Post subject:

The issue is-you can of course upgrade the hussar (maybe even for the reduced price, I do not remember that) and their name changes but that's only the royal upgrade (i.e. Carl's Hussars) and not the guard upgrade (Guard Hussars) if I remember correctly. If you enable the additional informations on upgrades it will become clear.
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SAOL
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:12 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
The Reichsarmeen concept needs some rethinking. Although it's absolutely nice and flavorful it does not work from an balancing point of view. In my opinion they are too expeansive at the beginning and too weak and slowly training at the end of the game (might be due to the lack of the card that decreased train time). Gearing them more towards the chinese banner armies could be an option.
I kind of agree with this assessment.

What if they grew in size but also cost as you progressed through the ages?
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:09 pm    Post subject:

Hey there, thanks for your feedback. I might add that I made a major mistake when re-packing the files, which causes a notable amount of new files not to be read at all. That's why certain types of bugs will arise.

Silmariel wrote:
I hope you do not mind if I answer in his place.
What I noticed was:
-build limits for Reichsarmeen are not in effect. They are only in effect when they are queued up in the Reichstag.

The Build limit for these armies doesn't work (I observed the same effect) that's why I added a build limit for the units that the armies contain (i.e. you can never have more than 4 Sharpshooters and hence not more than 4 Hessian armies). I've tested that myself, so I can assure it usually works. It might not work now due to the mentioned bad file packing.

Quote:
-The new cards (Archduchy of Austria, Electorate of Brandenburg, Franconian Reichsritter [which has a really nice flavor. I was very sad not to be able to try it and to see how it works out] etc.) didn't show up in my deck when playing although I added them before. I tried several times.

I suppose that's caused by bad packing too. Will be fixed.

Quote:
-Settler shipments do not send Doppelsöldner

That's nothing I changed and probably has always been like that. Can't even remember that ever happening in AoE3. Wink

Quote:
-The Mecklenburgian Politician grants an upgrade to dragoons instead of hussars.

Thanks, fixed!

Quote:
-The cavalry-hp-shipment now only increases hussars hitpoints (as revealed in the release notes) but does not boost the warwagon.

By code they do, see yourself:



If they don't do for real, I suppose it's due to the packing.

Quote:
-Austrian explorer lacks his Lederhose and looks like the British explorer now.

Yup, wrong file loads due to bad packing, will be fixed.

Quote:
-I thought Doppelsöldner were to be renamed as Landsknechte and vice versa?

NE 2.2

Quote:
-Spanish Riding School is still a German Shipment although it's obviously an Austrian institution

Could you elaborate on this?

Quote:
-Skirmishers Royal Guard upgrade is still the Prussian Rifleman. Not very fitting.

Yup, we know the Prussian rifleman is not a good RG for Germans. Giving Prussians a skirmisher was a short-term decision. These cosmetical things will be changed in NE 2.2.

Quote:
-The Reichsarmeen concept needs some rethinking. Although it's absolutely nice and flavorful it does not work from an balancing point of view. In my opinion they are too expeansive at the beginning and too weak and slowly training at the end of the game (might be due to the lack of the card that decreased train time). Gearing them more towards the chinese banner armies could be an option. Also swapping back the Württembergian contingent to the original form which involved horse artillery if I'm right (can't find the modding report atm) would be benefitting.

In fact the concept already experienced rethinking. As you know, Germans have a worse XP rate. So as the game proceeds these armies actually become more valuable (as your eco grows too). So while you might indeed say they do not appeal to you because of the high costs, I find it a bit forward to assert they'd not be balanced.

You seem to ignore two major advantages here: 1) Germans have now the possibility to train all of these *additional* units in each game, 2) even though there is a build limit on these units, they can theoretically be trained unlimited times (which is particularly nice for Chevauxlegers and Sharpshooters). So just keep these two advantages in mind and then think about the costs again. What do you expect? That we give Germans access to all troops and make them as or even more cost-efficient as their standard units?
Sure, we can reduce the unit count per army a bit and hence lower the price a bit, but the principle would need to remain the same as everything as would be imbalanced. So far on "things not working from a balancing point of view".

SAOL wrote:
What if they grew in size but also cost as you progressed through the ages?

That's technically not possible with the current way it's coded along with all the other features. I'm wondering though what's the advantage/purpose of making things harder to afford than starting at a higher level and offer possibilities to make them more affordable.

Silmariel wrote:
Over all those things, don't forget that I'm absolutely grateful for your work. Thank you very much.

Sadly, stupid bugs like these ruin my days when I gotta read extensive bug lists.. Neutral
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:07 pm    Post subject:

I played another game to check back on some things.

1. Reichsarmeen buildlimit

At the moment it's not in effect. I had >20 garde de corps.

2. Shipments without Doppelsöldner
The Settler cards do not ship a Doppelsöldner, although you get Uhlans in standard AoE, as does the 8-Handcanoneer-card. (really like the concept of the unit now by the way. Good that the crossbows are gone now). Haven't checked most of the other cards.

3. Cavalry-HP-shipment
I was wrong about this. sorry.

4. Spanish Riding School
Spanish Riding School (click!). Nothing important. Probably something for NE 2.2

New issues I noticed:
5. Instant Doppelsöldner
With the 30-years-war you can train Doppelsöldner instantly. Don't know if that's the intention.

6.Wrong numbers with Garde de Corps

The text suggests to ship 8 Garde de Corps, although it ships only 4 (who are strong enough by all means). Might be due to bad packaging?

7. Wrong numbers with native techs
Some of the native techs that ship units/ressources/whatever depending on the duration of the game only send one entity by 6 minutes although it's supposed to be on every 3 minutes. I noticed this with Bavarian Oktoberfest and Maltese Knights of Rhodes. Might be due to bad packaging?

8. Reichsarmeen
There certainly is truth in your words. Still there are several problems with the Reichsarmeen which lead to a difficult usage.
-Trainingtime/Population cost: As most Reichsarmeen are "big", they cost a lot of population. This population is blocked while training them. In the meantime I could have spawned several badges of regular units. In addition you cannot use the Reichsarmeen for overpopulation as with the Aztecs' big button techs.
-Cost: As soon as I have the possibility to use the Reichsarmeen other options-more effective and potent options are available. This is somehow regulated by the lower number shipments. But even a saloon might be more viable than the Reichstag, instead of mercenary shipments. The mixture of ressources needed is also a hinderance in my opinion.
-Composition: The mixture of various unit types (regular, natives, mercenaries) makes me dependant of various upgrades, that's additional ressources I've to invest. Plus: not all armies work very well by itself. The Saxonian Garde de Corps is nice because it gives you only hand cavalry (and a superb one. It's the only Reichsarmee I use), as is the Hannoveranion, where you get anti-cavalry only. Those two are also particularly useful because they have an imperial upgrade.

I would imagine the Reicharmeen as an expensive addition to your army that's trained quickly and that fulfills a certain role (such as Hannoveranian units as anti-cavalry, while Hessian units are anti-infantry). It's somehow a "back-to-the-roots" and pretty close to the concept your presented in modding report 17 (I actually even liked the icons more back then. They seemed cleaner. Whatever. ;-/): Units cost their normal population but you can achieve a slight overpopulation with it. They are trained quickly to make up for the time when you you try to get together the needed ressources.

About the special units (sharpshooter, Cheveauleger): Aren't they going to be nerfed in NE2.2? I thought the Cheveaulegers would become somewhat of a standard-cavarly unit. At the moment they are pretty overpowered, although the sharpshooter is not as strong as it requires a lot of micromanagement.


No offense taken, I hope you do not take any in my words.
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Ivenend
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:48 pm    Post subject:

1, The Franconia Reichsritter use the huge sword of Doppelsoldner's as his melee weapon? I don't think it is suitable.

2, I notice that you add a lot of new weapon models into the game! Mr. Green Could you please make a new weapon model for Doppelsoldner? Please don't use the weapon model in this picture, it is a big rapier rather than a zweihander!

3, The description of the button of reichssoldner in the reichstag doesn't show what and how many unit I will get.
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:45 pm    Post subject:

Silmariel wrote:
I played another game to check back on some things.

1. Reichsarmeen buildlimit

At the moment it's not in effect. I had >20 garde de corps.

Holy Roman shit! I actually was under the impression that they work now, but they don't. Jeez. Even tried a couple of solutions now, but none worked. Seems I gotta remove that limit and think of a different solution until I've got some more time on my hands for fixing that.

Quote:
2. Shipments without Doppelsöldner
The Settler cards do not ship a Doppelsöldner, although you get Uhlans in standard AoE, as does the 8-Handcanoneer-card. (really like the concept of the unit now by the way. Good that the crossbows are gone now). Haven't checked most of the other cards.

Won't add the Doppels to the Settlers, but added a Doppel to the Hand Cannoneers now.

Quote:
New issues I noticed:
5. Instant Doppelsöldner
With the 30-years-war you can train Doppelsöldner instantly. Don't know if that's the intention.

Actually the effect was -75% train time, lowered it to -60% now.

Quote:
6.Wrong numbers with Garde de Corps
The text suggests to ship 8 Garde de Corps, although it ships only 4 (who are strong enough by all means). Might be due to bad packaging?

Where is that? The only designated place to train GdC is the Reichstag.

Quote:
7. Wrong numbers with native techs
Some of the native techs that ship units/ressources/whatever depending on the duration of the game only send one entity by 6 minutes although it's supposed to be on every 3 minutes. I noticed this with Bavarian Oktoberfest and Maltese Knights of Rhodes. Might be due to bad packaging?

Yes, that can possibly be. Coding the numbers of these techs is a bit misleading and I guess there is some bad copy & paste involved, too. I will see if I can pick up the right numbers, I know I noted them *somewhere*. Mr. Green

Quote:
8. Reichsarmeen
There certainly is truth in your words. Still there are several problems with the Reichsarmeen which lead to a difficult usage.
-Trainingtime/Population cost: As most Reichsarmeen are "big", they cost a lot of population. This population is blocked while training them. In the meantime I could have spawned several badges of regular units. In addition you cannot use the Reichsarmeen for overpopulation as with the Aztecs' big button techs.
-Cost: As soon as I have the possibility to use the Reichsarmeen other options-more effective and potent options are available. This is somehow regulated by the lower number shipments. But even a saloon might be more viable than the Reichstag, instead of mercenary shipments. The mixture of ressources needed is also a hinderance in my opinion.
-Composition: The mixture of various unit types (regular, natives, mercenaries) makes me dependant of various upgrades, that's additional ressources I've to invest. Plus: not all armies work very well by itself. The Saxonian Garde de Corps is nice because it gives you only hand cavalry (and a superb one. It's the only Reichsarmee I use), as is the Hannoveranion, where you get anti-cavalry only. Those two are also particularly useful because they have an imperial upgrade.


@Traintime/Pop costs: Yes, lower train time and pop costs would make them a bit more appealing. However, Germans do have on the one side the capabilities to avoid getting housed (i.e. by the Palatine Settlements card) and on the other side do they have the need for most of the units offered in the Circles armies (the Reichsarmee is the *entity* of all these Kreisarmeen). So if you really want/need any of these units, you will care enough to provide the housing space and afford the resources for them.
I will definitely look into adjusting the train times, but I fear I can not do much about pop costs, especially since it seems that the build limit restriction just doesn't want to work (which still makes me curse).

@Costs: The mixture of resources actually forces you to focus on specific armies and is an effective way (hinderance) to suppress low-barrier jumping between the different armies. You can not have it all Mr. Green (yup, that is indeed the intention) Again, the Reichstag armies are not meant to replace the German unit roster in large style. The Reichstag rather offers you to implement units into your military strategies that are usually not available to Germans due to the lack of them. If you don't think any of these armies match your preferred way of playing Germans, then that's fine with me.
Since you mention the Saloon, I may add as a side note that the Reichssöldner army trains a bit quicker than its mercenaries would do as single units. As for the Saloon being a more viable choice than the Reichstag armies, sure, that can perfectly be the case as there are simply multiple ways how Germans can be played.
I didn't want to design a system, that you can just add on top of existing strategies, but something that requires you to replace certain elements of these strategies to give them a new spin. That, admittedly won't happen, if you prefer to stick with the older strategies. There's no need to always implement mercs, doppels, wagons and neither Reichstag armies into each match.

I do agree though that the current amount of resources coupled with the pop costs and standard-to-long train time doesn't really make them attractive choices by default. I will see whether I will reduce for each army the same variables or force differences (and I tend to do that).

@Composition: The Reichsarmee HC card does a good service here as it upgrades not only natives and regulars, but also reduces the armies' train time. All the other improvements from Arsenal, HC, etc. also apply to the army units in the same manner as it does to other units. It is not unusual to not include all military improvement cards for all units that you can build. So why should it be a problem now for Reichstag armies? You only move cards to your deck that fit your play style and have an important role in your strategy. Business as usual. The ambivalence that you see with the Reichsarmee though is actually a funny analogy to their historical example, which wasn't less ambivalent.

And I may admit that I'm a bit conservative on the army compositions, too. They were not solely composed like this for dedicated countering purposes, but their historical heritage matters as well. In fact, all the units that were missing in the German civ did exist in the HRE with often even high reputation. The lack of these units was a primary motivation for me to design this system that offers them without discarding the classic Germans. Hence it is not random, that the Bavarians send Grenadiers and Chevauxlegers and neither is it random, that Kurhannover sends Musketeers. So while you might see technical counter patterns in some of these armies, these were neither the only nor necessarily the most important motivations behind them (and I also think everyone got that). Since you pointed out some notable technical deficits though, I will of course try to improve them regarding this specific perspective, but also make very clear at the same time that valid arguments of competitive play will never be the only argument for me. Let's see how much I can simplify and polish the armies without having sacrifice too much of their meaning and representation.

Originally I did plan more techs/cards to adjust the armies, but they didn't make it into the game, because they are simply not yet. It's likely to happen in the future that some Reichstag techs will vanish in exchange for Reichstag army improvements.

Quote:
I would imagine the Reicharmeen as an expensive addition to your army that's trained quickly and that fulfills a certain role (such as Hannoveranian units as anti-cavalry, while Hessian units are anti-infantry). It's somehow a "back-to-the-roots" and pretty close to the concept your presented in modding report 17 (I actually even liked the icons more back then. They seemed cleaner. Whatever. ;-/): Units cost their normal population but you can achieve a slight overpopulation with it. They are trained quickly to make up for the time when you you try to get together the needed ressources.

I fear without working build limits I can't make them train quickly. Sure, I could lower the amount of units per army while keeping the current costs to counterbalance that, but then again hardly anybody has so much resources on their hands that one would buy overpriced units solely for the advantage of them training quickly. In fact, paying that price for more units and waiting longer (which is the current system) sounds more plausible to me. But speaking about army roles: Do you have any suggestions for particular armies to improve the "clearness" (and effectivity) of their role?

Also, just curious: Which of the original army icons did you prefer?

Quote:
About the special units (sharpshooter, Cheveauleger): Aren't they going to be nerfed in NE2.2? I thought the Cheveaulegers would become somewhat of a standard-cavarly unit. At the moment they are pretty overpowered, although the sharpshooter is not as strong as it requires a lot of micromanagement.

No, actually there's no plan like that for NE2. There's no doubt that the late game units (LGUs) are - taken for themselves - quite OP, but that also makes them attractive and their low availability but wide spread among Western style civs keeps in balance. What is true though, that the Chevauleger is going to be standard cavalry in NE3 and that the system of LGUs is likely going to be abandoned or replaced by something whose stats are less over-the-top.

Quote:
No offense taken, I hope you do not take any in my words.

No problem, I was obviously disappointed, but since I've been fixing the major packing bug already, I'm ready to get back to cold business and its icy numbers. Wink

-----------------------------------------------
Ivenend wrote:
1, The Franconia Reichsritter use the huge sword of Doppelsoldner's as his melee weapon? I don't think it is suitable.

Yeah, we might scale it down in the future. But if you ever saw Conquistadors (the Jesuit natives) in melee, it's not unusual for AoE3. Btw, the Garde du Corps has it too (and it looks just fine). Generally the cavalry swords are all a bit oversized though (Cuirs excepted).

Quote:
2, I notice that you add a lot of new weapon models into the game! Mr. Green Could you please make a new weapon model for Doppelsoldner? Please don't use the weapon model in this picture, it is a big rapier rather than a zweihander!

It's really too big to call it a rapier Wink But Zweihänder were ornamented too:
http://www.zeno.org/Kunstwerke.images/I/HL00255a.jpg?w=500&h=747&vid=770344668
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/originals/39/37/48/3937488896ae167fbdbe6bd70f058e7a.jpg


So that's what we were trying to illustrate with the selection of that weapon, which I don't interpret as rapier either. Smile

Quote:
3, The description of the button of reichssoldner in the reichstag doesn't show what and how many unit I will get.

That's intended, because once you'd send the Reichsritter cards, it'd be wrong to label it Black Rider. Smile
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Silmariel
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:21 pm    Post subject:

Tilanus Commodor wrote:


Quote:
6.Wrong numbers with Garde de Corps
The text suggests to ship 8 Garde de Corps, although it ships only 4 (who are strong enough by all means). Might be due to bad packaging?

Where is that? The only designated place to train GdC is the Reichstag.


Right there.


@Reichsarmee
A pity that the build limit turns out to be so complicated. Anyhow, about the population cost first. A decrease of population cost would be unwise in my opinion. How would you split that upon all the units, the armies consist of? And for some Kreisarmeen this is not even a concern, as some are native units which cost no population by default (I have noticed no change on this. Please correct if I'm wrong here). Unlike with the Aztecs' Big-Button-tech where you can achieve an overpopulation of about 300 if you are quick enough, you could only achieve a slight one with Kreisarmeen, as you only can train a single one at once. The biggest one, which is the Hannoveranion, I think, you could have about 10 population more which is not a huge bonus but would make the Kreisarmeen more attractive, at least for me. That would also blend in very well with my idea of the Reichsarmee as a sort of emergency army. If you are housed in by the enemy you could waste your ressources for some help from the Reich. Maybe the fast training could also be restricted to the mercenary party who is drawn by greed for the gold and therefor acts as a sort of "quick-respond-force". Wink

Concerning costs I would say that you cannot concentrate on a single ressource anyway. Because if every Kreisarmee fulfills a certain role, you need (other) ressources for the rest of your army, which only consists of regulars. Maybe we could have a big amount of one ressource and a tiny amount for another one.

Seems as if that card went unnoticed by me. I was not speaking about upgrade-shipments but rather about normal upgrades you could buy, for example if you have the right natives on the map. Anyhow. About the composition I would say most fit well. I might add that I was under some wrong impression, mixing some things you said about NE2.2 with NE3 or other versions of NE (for instance I thought the fusilier would be kicked as it was too similar to the musketeer as well as the Cheveauleger being a generic cavalry unit like the hussar.). Therefor my suggestion would have been:

Württembergian Army (quick artillery support, IV): Berittener Grenadier and Horse Artillery (as described by yourself in Modding Report 17)
Bavarian Army (versatile anti-skirmisher army, III): Cheveauleger and grenadiers (Gebirgsschütze removed, reason see below)
Saxony (uber-heavy cavalry, III): Garde de Corps (as is)
Hannover (anti-cavalry/standard-units, IV): Musketeer and dragoons (as is)

I'm somewhat undecided about the Hessian army (III) and the mercenary army (II). I would like to see the Reichstag in II (with only the mercenary army available although they could not be mercenaries abviously). The role of the Hessian army is of course that of the ranged infantry/heavy infantry counter. Except I do not like the sharpshooter at all. I complained about it's requirement of heavy micromanaging earlier on. If such a unit has to exist it should be in form of a slowly firing unit with little base damage but high multiplier against heavy infantry/heroes/whatever. But as this opinion does not represent any respectable part of NE's audience you might simply keep it as is. If (once) a unit such as the american mounted rifleman becomes a standard unit (I do not recall the standard roster you draw for NE3) as Chasseur à Cheval or Jäger zu Pferde this could be a fitting addition to the Hessian army.

I also had an idea about restricting the Kreisarmeen to a maximum of two different (standard) units each. An improvement-shipment could upgrade all german natives and send a badge of the representing ones (i.e. Gebirgsjäger for Bavarian army, Brunswicker for Hannover [really miss their new appearence] etc.) from now on with every Reichsarmee. As with natives, the population cost would not change and the Reichsarmeen could start out cheaper. The problem is that there are no corresponding units for all Kreisarmeen and one such as the Wurttembergian does already rely heavily on native units.

About the icons-I'm not completly sure, I think the Hannoveranian is still the same, as probably is the Bavarian. Hessia is the one that disturbs me most, as the little lion (or whatever it is) makes it really fuzzy for me. The older one looked better. Two colors, one icon, that's structure. Smile
I would also not mind changing back the Saxonian one. Carde the corps is special but it's still cavalry and does not need a special icon for that, imho.

That's again some wall of text I produced, I hope you do not mind.

PS: If you do not mind again - a rather personal question: In which district of Berlin do you live?
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Ivenend
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:16 am    Post subject:

Tilanus Commodor wrote:

Quote:
2, I notice that you add a lot of new weapon models into the game! Mr. Green Could you please make a new weapon model for Doppelsoldner? Please don't use the weapon model in this picture, it is a big rapier rather than a zweihander!

It's really too big to call it a rapier Wink But Zweihänder were ornamented too:
http://www.zeno.org/Kunstwerke.images/I/HL00255a.jpg?w=500&h=747&vid=770344668
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/originals/39/37/48/3937488896ae167fbdbe6bd70f058e7a.jpg


So that's what we were trying to illustrate with the selection of that weapon, which I don't interpret as rapier either. Smile



But the swashbuckler and Garde du Corps use the same weapon model! isn't this strange? If you don't make a new weapon model for Doppelsoldner, at least you should some scaling and re-texture to the rapier.gr2.

Though this model is ornamented, its hilt is too short to be a zweihander, in contrast, I think it will be the best weapon model for Reichsritter(melee) Mr. Green.


Silmariel wrote:

About the icons-I'm not completly sure, I think the Hannoveranian is still the same, as probably is the Bavarian. Hessia is the one that disturbs me most, as the little lion (or whatever it is) makes it really fuzzy for me. The older one looked better. Two colors, one icon, that's structure. Smile


But I love the new Hessen Icon Mr. Green
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:21 am    Post subject:

Silmariel wrote:
Tilanus Commodor wrote:
Where is that? The only designated place to train GdC is the Reichstag.

Right there.

Thanks, fixed.

Quote:
@Reichsarmee
A pity that the build limit turns out to be so complicated. Anyhow, about the population cost first. A decrease of population cost would be unwise in my opinion. How would you split that upon all the units, the armies consist of? And for some Kreisarmeen this is not even a concern, as some are native units which cost no population by default (I have noticed no change on this. Please correct if I'm wrong here). Unlike with the Aztecs' Big-Button-tech where you can achieve an overpopulation of about 300 if you are quick enough, you could only achieve a slight one with Kreisarmeen, as you only can train a single one at once. The biggest one, which is the Hannoveranion, I think, you could have about 10 population more which is not a huge bonus but would make the Kreisarmeen more attractive, at least for me. That would also blend in very well with my idea of the Reichsarmee as a sort of emergency army. If you are housed in by the enemy you could waste your ressources for some help from the Reich. Maybe the fast training could also be restricted to the mercenary party who is drawn by greed for the gold and therefor acts as a sort of "quick-respond-force". Wink

I see pop reductions for the units themselves only a viable option when also nerfing them at the same time, which, I think, nobody is really looking forward. You need to know though that army pop costs and actual unit pop costs can differ. I can do both: Set a higher or lower pop cost for the armies, which, however will be corrected to the actual unit pop costs once these arrive. I'm already using that possibility to take native units into account (hence they don't have 0 pop) and I use it now as an intended downside for a few armies, since I reduced the size of many armies too. I do not want the armies to be used for achieving overpopulation, even though that would technically be possible.
Offering quick training armies aka "emergency forces" is neither the idea behind these armies nor well-balanced as Germany already has the capabilities to reduce the train times of its units and ending up with Germans spamming stuff is really not the idea. The quickest troops were the mercenaries indeed and I gave another army the same train time now (Wurttemberg). In fact, I even increased the train time for the Sächsische Garde since the build limit doesn't really work for the armies.

Quote:
Concerning costs I would say that you cannot concentrate on a single ressource anyway. Because if every Kreisarmee fulfills a certain role, you need (other) ressources for the rest of your army, which only consists of regulars. Maybe we could have a big amount of one ressource and a tiny amount for another one.

The costs of these armies are in most - not all - cases drawn from the original costs of the units they contain, exceptions are Hessia and Bavaria. I implemented your idea for one large and one small (or rather: smaller) part of total costs for 3 armies.

Quote:
Seems as if that card went unnoticed by me. I was not speaking about upgrade-shipments but rather about normal upgrades you could buy, for example if you have the right natives on the map. Anyhow. About the composition I would say most fit well. I might add that I was under some wrong impression, mixing some things you said about NE2.2 with NE3 or other versions of NE (for instance I thought the fusilier would be kicked as it was too similar to the musketeer as well as the Cheveauleger being a generic cavalry unit like the hussar.). Therefor my suggestion would have been:

Württembergian Army (quick artillery support, IV): Berittener Grenadier and Horse Artillery (as described by yourself in Modding Report 17)
Bavarian Army (versatile anti-skirmisher army, III): Cheveauleger and grenadiers (Gebirgsschütze removed, reason see below)
Saxony (uber-heavy cavalry, III): Garde de Corps (as is)
Hannover (anti-cavalry/standard-units, IV): Musketeer and dragoons (as is)

I'm somewhat undecided about the Hessian army (III) and the mercenary army (II). I would like to see the Reichstag in II (with only the mercenary army available although they could not be mercenaries abviously). The role of the Hessian army is of course that of the ranged infantry/heavy infantry counter. Except I do not like the sharpshooter at all. I complained about it's requirement of heavy micromanaging earlier on. If such a unit has to exist it should be in form of a slowly firing unit with little base damage but high multiplier against heavy infantry/heroes/whatever. But as this opinion does not represent any respectable part of NE's audience you might simply keep it as is. If (once) a unit such as the american mounted rifleman becomes a standard unit (I do not recall the standard roster you draw for NE3) as Chasseur à Cheval or Jäger zu Pferde this could be a fitting addition to the Hessian army.

Horse Artillery was scrapped since the are already available to Germans by default. Maybe I will take it from them in the future and then re-implement it, let's see. Mr. Green

I originally planned the Reichstag to be available in Age II, this would however required me to set the randomized University techs inside to a specific age (and they are plenty), which would have been too much work for a small advantage like this right now. I don't understand what you mean with htem not being mercenaries though. I do agree on the Sharpshooter though, it's everything but a smooth unit to play with. I've rebalanced the armies now keeping an eye on their "competitive appeal". Each of these armies has now intentional up- and downsides with some of them being more convincing than others of course. The Hessian army probably still won't convince you Mr. Green (until I have reworked the Sharpshooter).

Quote:
I also had an idea about restricting the Kreisarmeen to a maximum of two different (standard) units each. An improvement-shipment could upgrade all german natives and send a badge of the representing ones (i.e. Gebirgsjäger for Bavarian army, Brunswicker for Hannover [really miss their new appearence] etc.) from now on with every Reichsarmee. As with natives, the population cost would not change and the Reichsarmeen could start out cheaper. The problem is that there are no corresponding units for all Kreisarmeen and one such as the Wurttembergian does already rely heavily on native units.

Actually you can achieve a very similar effect with the Native Treaties and Blood Brothers HC cards, which now also affect the NE natives. And as I said, I do take natives into account when setting the army pop costs (even though you get that pop back once the natives arrive). Also, all armies except the Saxonian and Bavarian one are limited to 2 units now (okay, my version, not yours). Finally you are also right with your last sentence. Wink

Quote:
About the icons-I'm not completly sure, I think the Hannoveranian is still the same, as probably is the Bavarian. Hessia is the one that disturbs me most, as the little lion (or whatever it is) makes it really fuzzy for me. The older one looked better. Two colors, one icon, that's structure. Smile
I would also not mind changing back the Saxonian one. Carde the corps is special but it's still cavalry and does not need a special icon for that, imho.

However, I have used the hoof icon for three other armies as well, mostly combined with a carbine and since the GdC is an unique unit it seemed appropriate to give it an unique icon. Mr. Green In fact, the Hannoverian one is different (has now the Saxon horse instead of the Union Jack on the left top corner). I do agree only a bit on the Hessian icon. The historically correct one (that looks like the Indonesian flag) is utterly boring and dull. I then took the flag of the Grand Duchy of Hesse and added the iconic red-white lion of its coat of arms. I also thought about just using the lion and the blue background, but don't remember if I tried that one already.

Quote:
PS: If you do not mind again - a rather personal question: In which district of Berlin do you live?

I'm living in the historically glorious Spandau. Mr. Green

Ivenend wrote:
But the swashbuckler and Garde du Corps use the same weapon model! isn't this strange? If you don't make a new weapon model for Doppelsoldner, at least you should some scaling and re-texture to the rapier.gr2.
Though this model is ornamented, its hilt is too short to be a zweihander, in contrast, I think it will be the best weapon model for Reichsritter(melee).

Arrow
Tilanus Commodor wrote:
Yeah, we might scale it down in the future.


However, I suppose, for details such as hilt lengths this is the wrong game (as you barely ever see it).
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