Modding Report #23
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gandalfDK
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:46 pm    Post subject:

Hmm, well, thats seems alright.

What I like?

Well, what I like to the AoE3 are a couple of things.

First, I think the main thing that sets AoE3 aside from AoE2 are the graphics. I really like the graphics, art and other visual aspects of this game. I enjoy to see that you have continued that and kept up the standard of the original game.
The historical aspects of this game have always been great. From the beginning I loved reading about the added history of each unit. Where were they used? Where did they came from? All those tiny bits are great. I like the fact that you continued this and that excellent history research is being performed. For example, the thing what always struck me a bit odd, was the fact of including German as a major civ and not Prussia. Germany has only been a real state since 1781, but yet Prussia was ignored. Those sort of things have been fixed by you and done stellar!
But if I had to choose: I freaking love the natives. Their units are always something cool and they give you, as a player, a headstart or advantage. Their added history was also very cool and I love your natives. (I have not played every map yet), like the Batavians and Barbary Pirates.

Summary: The new units and civs are well represented in history and gamewise also greatly injected. The new maps, I always love new maps, are cool as I always thought AoE3 lacked European maps and certainly African ones. Looking forward to the GameRanger link so I can play some games with my friends and introduce them to this mod. Keep up the good work!

Also, as you can see, Im new to this forum, but Ill probably be responding more often from now on. Smile
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Silmariel
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:19 am    Post subject:

As the game is not over, I'll try a second guess (no one else interested?)
Could they be somehow involved with politicians/revolutions? I'm not sure if there ever was a actual pro-Hugenottes regime in France, but there were still tolerating ones I assume, so a fitting politician could enable certain minority techs. If that doesn't touch the implentation even at the slightest level, you have come up with a very imaginative way of implenting them, congratulations.

PS: Unless it's similar to WotTA's immigrants... (which I hope it's not because the system sucks and does not suit the increasing quality of NE we have come to see in the last few...errr...years)
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Ivenend
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:01 pm    Post subject:

@Tilanus Commodor

Sorry for talking about the Doppelsoldner's zweihander sword model again.

I found that the unit models in Aoe3 are in .gr2 format, which is the same model format of Civilization V. And sometimes ago I had made two doppelsoldner models for Civilization V, which include sword models made by myself.


I wonder that if those sword models can be use in Aoe3 too.

I can also provide you the sword models in .obj, .ms3d, .blender, .br2, .nb2 or .nif format too if you need it.
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:03 pm    Post subject:

@gandalfDK: I'm glad to read that and thank you for your compliments. This is very much appreciated between all those - sometimes tiresome - bug reports Mr. Green

Silmariel wrote:
As the game is not over, I'll try a second guess (no one else interested?)
Could they be somehow involved with politicians/revolutions? I'm not sure if there ever was a actual pro-Hugenottes regime in France, but there were still tolerating ones I assume, so a fitting politician could enable certain minority techs. If that doesn't touch the implentation even at the slightest level, you have come up with a very imaginative way of implenting them, congratulations.

PS: Unless it's similar to WotTA's immigrants... (which I hope it's not because the system sucks and does not suit the increasing quality of NE we have come to see in the last few...errr...years)

Someone still knows about the ongoing Euro natives guessing game, good boy! Mr. Green Politicians is a close guess as it has do with that field. It really is not like the WotTA immigrants, which are also major civ-imminent content like Revolutions. What is it that you don't like about them btw?

Ivenend wrote:
@Tilanus Commodor

Sorry for talking about the Doppelsoldner's zweihander sword model again.

I found that the unit models in Aoe3 are in .gr2 format, which is the same model format of Civilization V. And sometimes ago I had made two doppelsoldner models for Civilization V, which include sword models made by myself.


I wonder that if those sword models can be use in Aoe3 too.

I can also provide you the sword models in .obj, .ms3d, .blender, .br2, .nb2 or .nif format too if you need it.

They sure could be used in AoE3 and also in NE if they fulfill our criteria for 3d models which have changed a bit over the time. This is an interesting site, thanks for the link! Do you by any chance know similarly themed 3d download sites? While we have certain game objects that need or would significantly profit from a new 3d model, it is not our intention to add as much unique models as we could. We're quite selective about these for some good reasons.
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gandalfDK
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:01 pm    Post subject:

About the guessing game:
what do we already know?

-the new natives won't be some people that got something to do with religion
- they will be featuring in South-European maps?

If someone of the guessers could add a bit more to my list, I may be able tto help. As I new, I have not been part of the developing/disscussions, and thus I may be missing some things.
Could the Bretons be a possibility or am I heading in the wrong direction?
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Silmariel
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:01 am    Post subject:

@Immigrants

First of all, their graphics are unappealing. That might have changed though, it was some time ago that I played a few WotTA games, never touched it ever since. In addition the implementation was clumsy in my rememberance. Having different types of villagers who can build different things is way too complicated in a game where you have to keep track of some many details. More is not always better and in this very case it's only irritating at least for me. Generic AoE III did in my opinion a very good job in terms of completness and keeping everything neat and easy while still maintaining the complexity necessary for a good RTS game, neglecting other things though. Mods tend to struggle with this simply because they are aiming for the greatest complexity possible. Plus: you of course have the annoying community who always voice their wishes and tastes as well which cannot be neglected to full extent I assume. Wink

@Guessing game
Well, everything that was said about this you can read in the modding report. Tilanus basically said important minorities (he mentioned Hugenottes and Catalans) will be featured in NE but in a different way than traditional natives. We are invited to find out how this is gonna be. So far I've been the only one guessing which is kind of a pity as Hugenottes have such an interesting history and I would be eager to know which role they will play. So I can only encourage you to try your best!
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gandalfDK
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:37 am    Post subject:

My family is originally a Hugenotte family. When they fled from France they came in Belgium and finally ended up in the Netherlands.

Maybe there will be 'stray' groups of fleeing Hugenottes which you can 'rescue' like with sheep or goats and instead of those Janissaries in Malta join you're cause.

Or they might influence your religion, so when you pkay the certain map, you'll be able to choose for a different 'local' religion.

Of Catalans I can only think of their resistance against the greater 'State'. S
So that may indicate that you can choose someyhing like 'local revolution' and thus gaining shipments from them and some replacement of units.
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:00 pm    Post subject:

Silmariel, you got that wrong:

Quote:
There's just one more information regarding European maps that I would like drop here. It affects the European natives. You already know natives like Bavarians, Westphalians, Wurttembergers and Finns, which are - similar to Native american tribes - local powers. Let me just say, that this won't be the only type of minor civs that we have in mind for European maps. That is, because it is admittedly quite of a ridiculous thing to force ethnic European minorities such as Hugenottes or Catalans into the classical role of AoE3 natives. We'll be excited to read your guesses. Mr. Green


It says there, that adding Hugenottes or Catalans as typical AoE3 natives is a ridiculous thing, hence, it's exactly what we will not do. Precisely, we won't add these ethnic minorities as natives at all, but a whole different type of natives. Wink
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gandalfDK
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:00 pm    Post subject:

I was a bit confused too.

So, it's guessing for some native?

Any hints?

The Sicani? ;p
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Silmariel
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:10 pm    Post subject:

Ah, I think it's better if I restrain from guessing from now on... Embarassed
I still have two other issues with natives.

At least two maps-Ural and Lake Baikal-features Mongols as natives. I wonder if there are plans to replace them? Their whole setup with Mangudai as unit and techs such as "Horde" imposes an anachronistic feel. I'm sure one can find a more appropriate minor civ in this historically very lively area such as Tatars or Cossacks.

Second thing I would appreciate to see is if all civs could get appropriate native shipments. At the moment only Austria, Prussia and Germany have some of the new ones available from their homecity. Some of them might be even added to the original civs to replace native americans which do not fully fit the European theatre:

Bavarians for Austria and Germany
Finns for Sweden and Russia
Egyptians, Tuareg and Corsairs for Ottoman Empire
Westphalians (instead of cherokee), Scots for Britain
Mongols/Replacement for Russia and Poland
Maltese for Italy (?)

And: While I'm still expecting with awe the Danish unique mounted healer I'm wondering about the number of Danish royal guard units. Didn't the Snapphane also have a royal guard upgrade?
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:00 pm    Post subject:

@gandalfDK: No, it's guessing for a new type of natives. Wink Asia got religious communities, America and Africa got native people, what do you think will Europe get?

Silmariel wrote:
At least two maps-Ural and Lake Baikal-features Mongols as natives. I wonder if there are plans to replace them? Their whole setup with Mangudai as unit and techs such as "Horde" imposes an anachronistic feel. I'm sure one can find a more appropriate minor civ in this historically very lively area such as Tatars or Cossacks.

I've been thinking about that indeed. For the sake of the AoE2 references, I'd like to keep the AoE2 Mangudai design though. However, names and other visuals can be changed so it is well possible that we rename Mongols to Tatars. Wink

Quote:
Second thing I would appreciate to see is if all civs could get appropriate native shipments. At the moment only Austria, Prussia and Germany have some of the new ones available from their homecity. Some of them might be even added to the original civs to replace native americans which do not fully fit the European theatre:

Bavarians for Austria and Germany
Finns for Sweden and Russia
Egyptians, Tuareg and Corsairs for Ottoman Empire
Westphalians (instead of cherokee), Scots for Britain
Mongols/Replacement for Russia and Poland
Maltese for Italy (?)

Yes, we can do that. Thanks for the recommendations!

I feel that some tips dont make sense gameplay-wise. For example, Russians already have CAs with a RG and Polish will get a new unique CA as well, with a Lithuanian Tatar also with a RG. Tatars did also fight for Ottomans, but those have CAs as well. It makes sense from a historical perspective, but you also always gotta ask yourself how much sense this makes effectively. Wink

Quote:
And: While I'm still expecting with awe the Danish unique mounted healer I'm wondering about the number of Danish royal guard units. Didn't the Snapphane also have a royal guard upgrade?

In the Modding report I mentioned the numbers of RGs that we had planned back then. In the meanwhile this has changed and the current plans are as follows:

Royal Guards:
  • Dragoon
  • Halberdier
  • Musketeer
  • Snaphane
  • Uhlan


Unique unit types:
  • Skirmisher
  • Mounted Healer
  • Monitor
  • Halberdier

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gandalfDK
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:52 pm    Post subject:

New type..

Local Powerhouses? Like local rulers, local politic powers, who rule with strength or democraticly. Some lands featured local warlords, but there are some places that raised against the State (as I said before).
Or maybe, just natives. We got the West-Phalians and Bavarians already, so maybe I'm just clueless.
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gandalfDK
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:54 pm    Post subject:

I've reread the part about the European natives several times now.
My final bet would be on what I've mentioned before: something that gives you, when you ally them, a political influence or religius. This could mean youl get 'hero'-like units which you can only build several of like the Nootka Warchief but then more generic, like Swashbucklers maybe. For religion, maybe spiritual leaders that give you more Church upgrades or special healers. The Hugenottes where spiritual, so their focus is probably not military, but they could give something like 'Exodus from France' and give you special Settlers.
Anyway, political and religical minorities for Europe. Africa and Asia got natives which I see more as military focused minorities and they are people woth some kund of HC themselves, they've got a place. The European civs might not even have trade posts at all, but...

I have np further clues.
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Silmariel
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:01 pm    Post subject:

The mangudai is recognizable indeed. In fact it's actually a pretty well done native tribe (except for they native portrait itself...). Wikipedia also says that the term was not only used for Mongolian cavalry but also tatarian one so that seems to fit. One could expand them to include the Crimean Khanate though.

Thanks to see that happen.
About the coexistance of cavalry archers-do not forget that native units do not need popspace-so they can still be a worthy addition to any army even if they already have superb anti-cavalry. Also Russia seriously lacks anti-cavalry in age II where neither cavalry archers nor halberdiers are available. One can of course keep this weakness intentionally but native units would be an option to resolve this.
There is still a progressing list of natives if I'm correct (Vlachs, you have been talking about Greeks etc.) so there should be something for everyone I guess.

That's an impressive list of guard units I'm really excited about Denmark, you are doing a great job Smile
But please assess the Danish Uhlans balance-wise. Even though Uhlans are a good unit in early ages if you can mass them (that's with the free uhlans Germany got). But they are pretty weak later on. With Germany they had 4(!) homecity cards which increased their combat abilities (45% to each, more than any other unit), 1 homecity cards which boosts their speed and a royal guard upgrade and still they were hardly a threat to any unit at latter stages of the game. My intention is not to give the Danes an uber-cav or suggest the removal of the uhlan but to advice you to keep and eye on balance issues that could emerge.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:01 pm    Post subject:

Tilanus wrote:
Asia got religious communities, America and Africa got native people, what do you think will Europe get?

Countryside yokels with an IQ lower than 80.
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Pawelec_POLAND
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:24 pm    Post subject:

Tilanus Commodor wrote:
Asia got religious communities, America and Africa got native people, what do you think will Europe get?
Maybe local aristocratic houses, administrating smaller territories like counties or duchies?

As for gameplay features, I'd love to see choice-making as in Age of Chivalry, disabling some branches (not single techs or units, but whole branches) of the tech tree and enabling the other, but I guess the new natives won't do that.

Let's think more historically. Catalans are of course related with Spanish and Hugenottes with French. They could have be designed specifically to counter the certain civ with them, but that still doesn't solve the mystery...

...so my another guess is the new natives may be traders, offering some exchanges of goods, units and other things (but, erm, what's left to be exchanged?) and changing costs of techs and units. But this would be insane as well, just imagine how hard would it be to balance things with costs changed. I'm just spamming ideas. I do that all the time.

And kill me if you want, but I'm so impatient that I must ask about estimated NE 2.2 release date - I mean if we are weeks or months from the release?

One last thing: I hope you won't drop NE2 too quickly, I definitely prefer adding things to a game than replacing what we have.

EDIT: BTW, have you done anything to this MIDI-sounding music playing in the main menu? If you plan to use that piece I can record the MIDI with my keyboard for you, it would sound much more like a piano.
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