Suggestion | Priests
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stubbo
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:24 pm    Post subject: Suggestion | Priests

Was thinking today about the role of priests in the game (they don't seem to be of great or widespread use).

Would any of the following be worth considering:

1. Priests giving an aura to nearby troops to make them fight harder (increased rate of fire, or greater attack, or move faster, or a combination)...as if the presence of the holyman instils some kind of fanaticism or religiously inspired fervour...similar effect to a Japanese Daimyo

2. Priests could 'enlist' units that they come into contact with (a bit like War Chiefs Guardians) using a special ability, or alternatively in a way that the unit only remains with switched allegiance while in the presence of the priest (a bit like how herdables switch allegiance when in contact with a given side). This could be as if the unit had fallen under the 'spell' of the priest to fight for their side.

3. Priests could convert treasure guardians to fight for the cause (ala War Chiefs) through a 'religious indoctrination' ability or some such.

4. Priests could have an aura that effects the gathering rate of nearby settlers, inspired by the religious presence.
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caveman909
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:20 pm    Post subject:

I like the idea of the priest having more importance in the game. They could also be upgraded into bishops, archbishops etc...
But this would only be for "religious states", like Spain, Italy etc...
Because its true that priest are often useless in game, and are almost never played online.



What do you people think about this?
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Ande59
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:18 am    Post subject:

For the first point: Similar to Spanish Unction?

I'd enjoy the gathering rate aura, but the aura should only be limited to one (so it can't stack like the Spanish Unction card). There needs to be balance in Aura's, unlike the Spanish Unction
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SAOL
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:19 am    Post subject:

If that's the case I think it is better to tie it to the church building rather than the priest itself.
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Ande59
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:04 pm    Post subject:

Very smart, sir. Hats off to you. Smile
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Edeholland
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:22 pm    Post subject:

If you ask me, we don't need priests to do anything other than heal. But currently, they suck at healing. They heal so freaking slowly, that you are better of just using your units with lower hp. It's only viable in some cases with cannons or mamelukes. There is no need for all kinds of special actions, in my opinion.
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SAOL
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:49 pm    Post subject:

This is my take on it as well.
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:46 pm    Post subject:

Well, it's funny that I was talking with Edeholland about that some days ago, because I wanted Priest to be more interesting as well. The heal-up case he brings up with HP-intense units like mamelukes would sure become exploitable the more effective the healing rates would be. Then again, I was already thinking to give the healer different healings rates per unit type. So a bit like Settlers gather different resources with various gather rates, Healers could heal different unit types (Mercs, Cavalry, Artillery, Infantry, Natives, etc.) with various heal rates.

@stubbo:
1. That would be quite like the Unction card. The effects that you mention don't really suit a Healer though, but rather a Commander unit.

2.+3. That conversion sadly doesn't work from a technical point of view.

4. I think a healer's aura would rather ... heal - or increase HP of nearby troops. Mr. Green

I agree with Ande59 on aura balance though. If you just google for discussions of the Unction card, you'll see why people have such an interest in it. One priest might be not a problem, but 2 or 3 priests standing side-by-side can quickly become a serious balance issue. So I'm with SAOL on that to limit aura effects rather to Churches than priests.
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caveman909
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:27 pm    Post subject:

I agree that aura effect would be a bit too OP and used, but what about for example add this aura possibilty with the natives Arrow they could for example be able to build TPs, and have such an aura to natives (and not artillery or other units) like more HP/atk? It would be like missionnaries trying to expand their religion, which could be realistic I think!
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stubbo
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:10 pm    Post subject:

Why is the priest considered a healer?

Was that their role during the period?
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Edeholland
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:18 pm    Post subject:

caveman909 wrote:
I agree that aura effect would be a bit too OP and used, but what about for example add this aura possibilty with the natives Arrow they could for example be able to build TPs, and have such an aura to natives (and not artillery or other units) like more HP/atk? It would be like missionnaries trying to expand their religion, which could be realistic I think!


Choosing to play with natives it a strategy on itself, making it more complex with hp/att boosts would not make it more interesting, I think.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:47 pm    Post subject:

Edeholland wrote:
caveman909 wrote:
I agree that aura effect would be a bit too OP and used, but what about for example add this aura possibilty with the natives Arrow they could for example be able to build TPs, and have such an aura to natives (and not artillery or other units) like more HP/atk? It would be like missionnaries trying to expand their religion, which could be realistic I think!


Choosing to play with natives it a strategy on itself, making it more complex with hp/att boosts would not make it more interesting, I think.


It would make the priest usefull in a way, cause I can assure you, i.g. nobody plays them (maybe for fun). But like that, there would be a point to use them.
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Edeholland
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:27 pm    Post subject:

caveman909 wrote:
Edeholland wrote:
caveman909 wrote:
I agree that aura effect would be a bit too OP and used, but what about for example add this aura possibilty with the natives Arrow they could for example be able to build TPs, and have such an aura to natives (and not artillery or other units) like more HP/atk? It would be like missionnaries trying to expand their religion, which could be realistic I think!


Choosing to play with natives it a strategy on itself, making it more complex with hp/att boosts would not make it more interesting, I think.


It would make the priest usefull in a way, cause I can assure you, i.g. nobody plays them (maybe for fun). But like that, there would be a point to use them.


I can assure you, people do make the priest in game, but only for mames/mercs and art. But making the priest viable when you use natives, just makes natives better. If you want to make natives better, why not just....make them better? lol
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caveman909
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:15 pm    Post subject:

Edeholland wrote:
caveman909 wrote:
Edeholland wrote:
caveman909 wrote:
I agree that aura effect would be a bit too OP and used, but what about for example add this aura possibilty with the natives Arrow they could for example be able to build TPs, and have such an aura to natives (and not artillery or other units) like more HP/atk? It would be like missionnaries trying to expand their religion, which could be realistic I think!


Choosing to play with natives it a strategy on itself, making it more complex with hp/att boosts would not make it more interesting, I think.


It would make the priest usefull in a way, cause I can assure you, i.g. nobody plays them (maybe for fun). But like that, there would be a point to use them.


I can assure you, people do make the priest in game, but only for mames/mercs and art. But making the priest viable when you use natives, just makes natives better. If you want to make natives better, why not just....make them better? lol

I dunno when you had people having priests online, but surely they're almost never used Topmodel

I see what you mean, but it would be a church upgrade for ex.
And when you upgrade them to bishops/archbishops (with a building limit), they could act as the nuncios?
These are just random ideas Smile
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Edeholland
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:20 pm    Post subject:

I have done like 6000 games online, I have seen enough priests to fill a church. Mr. Green I think priests don't need to be more complex. If they are just a little better in overall, I think they are a fine unit.
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caveman909
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:22 pm    Post subject:

Impressive, I surely didn't play that much but surely enough years at a standard level where the role of priests was so insignificant that sometimes you could almost forget you could make some (missionaries on TAD with the HC card except). And using them on nilla for mercs (for arts: what kind of strategy is that lol ) doesn't seem to me like giving them a reasonable purpose and importance in the game Smile

Jokes apart, I think it could be a nice update to change a little bit the utility of priests and /or churches, but as you said, it's not that important too (could just be a fun one, having the possibility to build a strategy based on the power of the country's religion Mr. Green )

Also, as you said, at the moment they're quiet slow healers. But what about giving them (for ex.) an aura for villagers to gather a little faster with a church upgrade (like the Karni Mata wonder), like the aura religion could have on the people? Or another example would be to give them the ability to action an aura for a little more attack damage (like Nanib in the AoE3 TAD campaign), giving an impression of "religious fanatism" for a short moment?

Don't you think this could be exciting ? NE is exciting in itself, but I think stubbo brought up an interesting new side of the importance of religion that could be exploited in my opinion! Smile
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