Polish civ remake ideas
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Pawelec_POLAND
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:17 am    Post subject: Polish civ remake ideas

Lately I've been experimenting with two ideas and as of now both of them fail completely.

The first one is to create economic boost auras with specific forms of gathering affected. The problem is the only economic aura, that is Karni Mata's, uses GatherRate as modifytype and I have no clue if it's possible to make auras boosting only woodcutting, gathering berries or hunting.

The second one is about my idea of making a hybrid of Sacred Field and Shrine, which would have 4 gather spots for huntable animals like shrine, but get XP from them like Sacred Fields do. I'm afraid I got lost with .tactics files, because the shrine mechanism is coded both in the huntables' and Shrines' tactics and I have no idea how to get it to work with Sacred Field mechanism.

Do you have any ideas looming on the horizon?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:53 pm    Post subject:

Phew, that's a very detailed question. Generally the effects of Wonders are a pain in the ass, because they're hardcoded. You might look at the tactics of other units that boost or nerf surrounding units through an aura effect. Maybe they have tags you could apply to the Karni Mata's tactics code and that is more specific than <modifytype>GatherRate</modifytype>.

As for the Shrine, that should be possible by changing these lines in proto to 'XP' instead of 'Food':
Code:
      <CarryCapacity>999.0000</CarryCapacity>
      <InitialResource>100.0000</InitialResource>


No tactic modifications needed for this one. That also makes sense if you look at the proto object from Sacred Field:
Code:
      <CarryCapacity>100.0000</CarryCapacity>
      <InitialResource>999.0000</InitialResource>
      <ResourceSubType>XP</ResourceSubType>

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Pawelec_POLAND
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:18 pm    Post subject:

Thanks for an extensive reply!

All of my questions are because I'm trying to make and playtest a Polish civ modification myself before I suggest anything in the public and get attacked by people who tell me it's all impossible or way too unbalanced...

The main idea is to make age-up politicians royal election candidates and make them much more powerful, enabling techs and units in addition to the usual shipments (a bit like Age of Mythology minor gods), most of the techs focus on giving some small but profitable gameplay functions to commonly underestimated (frankly speaking just boring) buildings: Houses, Outposts, Folwarks and Docks.

After some research it seems the aura thing is impossible, only GatherRate and AutoGatherRate modifytypes are used with economic auras Sad

Such a pity, techs enabling Houses, Outposts and Folwarks to boost woodcutting, hunting and gathering berries would be a nice addition - spreading the buildings across the woods would actually make sense...

As for the second one I got it working thanks to your help and I even reached the point when I applied it to an Outpost and made it enabled by a tech enabled by a certain Colonial Age politician for Poles Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:27 pm    Post subject:

Just tell me your ideas for the Polish civ right away. I'm all ears since I want to rework the Polish in NE 2.2. Could you be a lil more specific about the special politicians? What exactly would they enable? And how would that be both attractive and representative of Polish-Lithuanian history?
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Pawelec_POLAND
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:15 pm    Post subject:

Fine, but the thing is quite revolutionary. I'll discuss only the main ideas, without going into detailed info such as tech specs or historical nuances, it will still take a LOT of words...

1. Polish spokesperson, Jan Sobieski, would be replaced with anonymous representative of szlachta, I'd suggest Grand Crown Hetman. That's because in fact the Commonwealth was ruled by szlachta, not by a king they elected. Besides, the whole remake idea is based on royal elections and choosing a king while playing Jan Sobieski would make no sense.
2. The candidates for royal election replace age-up politicians. The thing is their impact on the game would be much more significant, as they would not only send shipments, but also enable researching certain techs and training certain units like Age of Mythology minor gods. This would make Poles an interesting civ to play, because their tech tree could be a bit different in every game. Brief ideas about the candidates are at the bottom of the post.
3. The Commonwealth's productive economy was based on agriculture (and by this I mean food export) and supported by forestry and related things (wood and furs were also sources of profits). There were almost no gold and very little silver mines in the Commonwealth. Also, drug and fiber plants were rarely cultivated. This means Poles should get mining and Plantation gather rate penalty. How would they get gold is described further.
4. As the votes during the elections were mostly bought by the competitors, all of the candidates ship at least 100 coins. This would also make the gold penalties a bit less painful.
5. The bonuses granted by the candidates' techs affect mostly the buildings with little gameplay role: Houses, Folwarks, Outposts and Docks. These may include auras, generation trickles, possibility to train units etc.
6. As the Commonwealth was always a bit technologically late compared to its neighbours, the Poles start with only 5 houses available and their limit increases by 5 with every age except Imperial. Besides, Houses support only 7 population - this is to counter the Folwark/Plantation population bonus. More strict House limit would also prevent abusing the House techs early in the game.
7. To get sufficient amount of coin, Poles would need to get to Fortress Age. That's because Fortress Age candidates would enable coin-related techs, such as trickles and ability to buy gold crates with food (see the candidate ideas at the bottom).
8. Building cost bonus and HP penalty is a good and historically relevant idea, however the Tabor desperately needs to be removed (that was discussed quite often). What makes Poles considerably unbalanced civ for RMs is they absolutely lack any chances of competing at sea. That is very accurate in terms of history, but we Polish tend to forget that we actually had a small fleet of warships, which was very well-commanded and if we needed it, we could rely on it (read about blockades of Koenigsberg and Gdansk and battle of Oliwa). Also, the king Sigismunt III was very eager to expand the fleet, but szlachta successively stopped his efforts in this matter. But we are the szlachta in game, so if we want, we can allow Sigismunt Vasa (Fortress Age candidate) and Infante Manuel (Imperial Age candidate) to give us access to proper warships, but still in lesser numbers than for other civs and without any upgrades.
9. Poles need new revolutionaries, they had no colonies which could revolt. There were two types of rebellion-like events in the Commonwealth: rokosz and confederation - I bet they can somehow be used to make the thing more historically-accurate. As for the gameplay ideas I'm not very creative here as I go Imperial most of the time and I simply lack "revolutionary" experience.

Now, the candidate summary, very WIP as this is just an outline. I chose the candidates considering the following criteria:
- in which election they took part,
- if they represent the same in-game civ - I tried to avoid that,
- if they were serious candidates for the throne (this is not very relevant to Livio Odeschalchi, as I chose him to avoid duplicating the nationality).

Colonial Age candidates
French - Henry de Valois, Prince of France:
focus: cavalry
- enables 2 Outpost techs, the second one requires the first: Tree Stand (Outposts create aura of small radius, boosting resource gather rate by 12%), Hay Rack (Outposts attract wild animals, every Outpost gains 3 XP-generating slots, which are activated by wild animals)
- sends Chasseurs, wood and coins
Italians - Alfonso II d'Este, Duke of Ferrara:
focus: Churches and Priests
- enables 2 Church techs, the second one requires the first: Relics of Saint Stanislaus (Priests and Churches create +12% attack aura of small radius; allows you to build 3 additional Churches), The Litany of Saint George (cavalry regains 2 HP/second if not in enemy's LOS)
- sends Nuncios and coins
Poles - Stephen Báthory, Prince of Transylvania:
focus: infantry
- enables 2 Folwark techs, the second one requires the first: Easements (Folwarks create aura of small radius, boosting resource gather rate by 12%), Diary Production* (enables training Cows in Folwarks, animals assigned to Folwarks fatten 12% faster)
- sends Szlachcic, Pikemen, food and coins
Germans - Maximilian II, Holy Roman Emperor:
focus: economy
- enables 2 House techs, the second one requires the first: Thatched Housing (Houses have 12% less HP, but are build 12% faster and 12% cheaper), Prosperous Households* (you can build 5 houses less, but they create aura of small radius, boosting resource gather rate by 12%)
- sends Settler Wagons, food and coins

Fortress Age candidates
Swedish - Sigismund Vasa, Prince of Sweden:
focus: artillery and navy
- enables Dock tech: Battle of Oliwa (enables 2 Galleons and 2 Fluits)
- enables Artillery Foundry tech: Leather Cover* (artillery suffers 15% less damage from ranged attacks)
- sends Falconet, Outpost Wagon and coins
Austrians - Maximilian III, Archduke of Austria:
focus: infantry
- enables House tech: Property Tax* (Houses are 15% more expensive, but generate a small amount of coin)
- enables Barracks tech: Viennese Blacksmiths* (infantry suffers 15% less damage from ranged attacks)
- grants Frontier Outpost, sends Settlers and coins
Russians - Aleksey Mikhailovich, Tsar of All Russia:
focus: defense
- enables Outpost tech: Forest Base* (Outposts have their LOS and HP increased by 15% and can train Partyzants)
- enables Folwark tech: Winter Supplies* (reduces food cost of Settlers and all infantry units by 15%)
- sends Cossacks, food and coins
Poles - Jan Sobieski, Crown Grand Hetman:
focus: cavalry
- enables Dock tech: Vistula Trade (you can buy 100 coin crates for 120 food in your Town Centers and Docks)
- enables Stable tech: Plate Metal Body Armour (cavalry suffers 15% less damage from ranged attacks)
- sends Hussars and coins

Industrial Age candidates
Germans - Frederick Augustus I, Elector of Saxony:
focus: heavy infantry and heavy cavalry
- sends Doppelsoldners, food and coins.
French - François Louis, Prince of Conti:
focus: artillery and defense
- enables House tech: Homeland Inspiration* (Houses create +18% attack aura of small radius)
- enables Artillery Foundry tech: Sokoliki (Falconets and Horse Artillery reload 18% faster, so they shoot more frequently)
- sends 1 Fort Wagon (+1 to the Fort limit) and coins
Poles - Stanisław Leszczyński, voivode of Poznan:
focus: economy and light cavalry
- enables Folwark tech: Beloved Soil* (Folwarks create +18% attack aura of small radius)
- sends Lisowczyks, wood and coins
Italians - Livio Odeschalchi, Duke of Bracciano, Ceri and Syrmia:
focus: buildings and techs
- enables University tech: Italian Architects (removes Polish building HP penalty)
- sends Merchants and coins

Imperial Age candidates
Germans - Frederick Augustus II, Elector of Saxony:
focus: economy and artillery
- sends Dragoons, Mortar and coins
Portuguese - Infante Manuel, Count of Ourém:
focus: navy and infantry
- enables Dock tech: Portuguese Shipbuilders* (upgrades Carracks to Caravels, enables 2 Frigates and 2 Monitors)
- sends Falconet, Culverine, food and coins
Poles - Stanisław Poniatowski, Grand Pantler of Lithuania:
focus: cavalry and techs
- enables Stable tech: Corps of Cadets (enables Uhlans and all their upgrades)
- enables Capitol tech: Abolition of Liberum Veto (lowers amount of coins required by all Town Center, Church, Univeristy and Capitol techs except Blockade and Spies by 25%)
- enables University tech: Thursday Dinners (Town Centers, Churches, Universities and Capitols generate small amount of XP and coin)
- sends Uhlans, wood and coins

Techs marked with * have not historically-related names and could be changed.
Also, some nice names for Polish techs: Military Reforms of Permanent Council, War of the Polish Succession, Löwenwolde's Treaty

Final words:

I know this is just a mess of various ideas, but I think the core of the idea is the royal election. It must be implemented to give Poles the nice feel. Trust me, I'm Polish and I something in my head simply tells me it's necessary to have the election... and the bribing element...
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:07 am    Post subject:

While we have seen a lot of Polish nationalists in this forum over the years, there are some good ideas here and an understanding of AoE III I see for the first time. Even though I'm from Austria, live and Germany and have little understanding for polish history beyond Sobieski's help to défend Vienna in 1683 I agree with certain points of the author.
I agree that Poland is much more determined for a unique political system than Austria for example. I've to add that Pokand is one of my favourite civs to play, way above Austria if you want to take account for the nationalism factor. At the moment they play out very nicely. Their bonus with farms housing population while gaing food enables them to stay at their base much longer than anyone else. Also they have a very nice bonus as their howdolany (sorry for dpelling mistake) doubles as a mill and a livestock pen and most of NE's maps features some kind of livestock.

I do support: a unique Polish age-up system and the sketch jas been very good to this point. I also would like to see Uhlans as a polish standard unit simply because they are bearly as iconic as the Hussaria. I could also imagine the three powers which participated in the partage of Poland to have a shipment ehich grants them additional uhlans, even though I know Prussians are supposed to have them available as Bosniaks/Towarszyc (sorry for spelling) via church tech.

I do not support:
Increase of Polish naval capabilities. Having a free tower in any game + shipping 3 carracks for 500 gold (do not have NE at hand so cannot check) is quite an impressive bonus. Get a tower or stable up on your enemie's side of the map and you win easily. I did this with Germany which are not a great naval civ either in quite a few generic AoE games...
Any other leader than Jan Sobieski. Saving Europe from the Turks was just an impressive feat that should be honored.
Boni granted on age up. That's confusing and imbalanced even without being stackable. Also granting NE-techs such as Leiden banknotes with the Dutch is a particulsr bad idea. Playing NE forcthe first time i'mstrictly against thesr

PS: sorry for posting drubk again. I hope everything is read and undrstandable
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:18 pm    Post subject:

Oh, I seem to have forgotten to write that these changes would need a revision of HC cards available to the Poles. As you wrote, the idea of shipping the Carracks AND enabling the warships with election candidates would be very unbalanced. About the naval thing: after doing some history research I think I wouldn't go for enabling heavy warships (Frigates/Monitors), but I'm still opting for the Battle of Oliwa tech idea and I'm even more sure that it needs both Fluyts and Galleons, but in a limited number (2+2 is maximum, maybe even 2+1 or 1+1, of course less ships means the tech would be cheaper).

But why not enabling techs by the candidates? I've always thought the lack of age-up politicians' impact on the tech tree was a bad idea, especially given the fact it was present in Age of Mythology and spiced up the game nicely.

Without replacing Sobieski, the age-up politicians cannot be changed to election candidates, this would make no sense to choose e.g. Sigismund Vasa while playing under the command of Jan Sobieski (or even less to choose him as a candidate).

This may surprise you, but the Vienna thing is considered much more of a success abroad than in Poland. What we admire Sobieski for is rather the fact he managed to keep the Commonwealth in one piece in very dangerous times, not the battle of Vienna. On the other hand, he's still considered the most successful ruler of the free election period.

What I'm concerned about is the coin thing, I'm not sure if it would work well with the game mechanics.

And when I write Folwark I mean what's now called Hodowlany, because that's what it should be named.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:58 pm    Post subject:

The issue I see with politicians granting techs be it Polish ones or others is that the UI is not designed for this. The example I tried to bring up last night was a Dutch politician (ageIV?) who grants you the tech Leiden banknotes. As it's a new tech introduced by NE (it's in fact a Dutch university tech I learned later on). As the effects are not described one cannot compare them to other age-up-options. You are left without information what the tech is good for. In this case it's likely to be involved with banks but could also be related to gold cost of villagers or units. You have to guess if only the name of the tech is mentioned. Tech names in other languages increase the confusion even more.
If you go down the descriptive route you are left with simple boni (such as the USA have. Their age up system is still a bit arcane however...) because everything else would smash the borders of the existing UI. If there was a unique ui whereas one could check the impact of techs I would favor your idea (as with AoM which was nice indeed with those minor civs within each civ). Also describing it in a manner such as "grants techs to increase woodgatherrate" is not satisfying from my point of view as if you play competatively it comes down to serious number crunching.
Also some of your techs are seriously overpowered (esp those which boost gathering within a certain radius-if that stacks you can gather much too fast for instance)

I'm somewhat confused whom you mean with Sobieski now? I thought you were referring to the AI-character. I do not think there is any other mentioning of him. Imo he is the most fitting candidat for that position because he is known not only in Poland but whole Europe. Also all AI characters have an enormous expanded lifetime if you have the super-uber-realistical point of view-because they rule for several hundred years (aka ageI-ageV). That's the game's abstraction.

POlish farms will be renamed anyway with next version (as you can see with the last modding report) there's no need to mention it several times.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:45 pm    Post subject:

I agree on the UI part, I've also thought about it, I ended up with descrpition like "Enables (tech), (tech) and (tech), sends (units), (units), (resources) and (coins)", so people would need to know the techs before they age-up.

There's one catch with auras: most of them are set not to be stackable Wink
There's a parameter in abilities.xml file controlling that:
<alwaysdisabledingrid>true</alwaysdisabledingrid>

No matter in how many auras of the same kind a unit is, it benefits from them only once if this is set to true. Setting it to false makes the aura stackable. I know stacking four +12% auras makes a total around +148%, that's why I double-checked the abilities.xml and tested existing auras in-game.

About Sobieski I have two thoughts:
1. If the age-up politicians were to be replaced with royal election candidates it would make no sense to play as a king - you would be a king and choose a king with every age up. Who would be the king then?
2. Sobieski is considered the greatest ruler of the Commonwealth in free election period, so if I were to choose a king to represent the Commonwealth it would certainly be him, however outside Poland the battle of Vienna tends to be given much greater significance than in Poland. He may be famous, but what people outside Poland think about him and his reign is not quite true.

Besides, I found some info about Jan Sobieski which can be used in the mod.

Military reforms of John III Sobieski:
- pikes came out of use,
- musketeers were equipped with bardiches,
- dragoons and artillery came into much more common use,
- number of hussars was increased.

Fails of Jan Sobieski:
- he didn't manage to establish hereditary monarchy and continued to increase the role of sejm,
- he didn't manage to choose between Austrian-Venetian and French alliances, leaving the Commonwealth without any of those,
- he promoted many members of the house of Sapieha to high administrative positions in Grand Duchy of Lithuania, but gave them too much power, what resulted in them arranging an anti-royal riot in Lithuania.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:55 pm    Post subject:

Pawelec_POLAND wrote:
I agree on the UI part, I've also thought about it, I ended up with descrpition like "Enables (tech), (tech) and (tech), sends (units), (units), (resources) and (coins)", so people would need to know the techs before they age-up.


I gave reasons already why I think this is no good idea. It might be feasible for people who only play Poland or have an understanding of Polish but not for the general audience. While I still applaud your basic concept I do not see any need to decrease playability to favor a single civ.


Quote:

About Sobieski I have two thoughts: (...)


You failed to clarify. Is it the AI-character? Is the explorer named Sobieski? You can rename the explorer if that's the issue. If you have any issue with the AI character-I simply do not see a better one. Also you do not play under Sobieski or with him or as him. You play as Poland/any other civ throughout the ages. In singleplayer the portrait is only there to give the civ a face. In multiplayer you choose your own portrait and only the flag shows your civ. (...)
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:24 pm    Post subject:

I meant the AI, but given the fact we already don't see the age-up thingy for the AI he may stay, you've convinced me Wink

EDITS:

Gameplay idea
I've just got another idea how to make Poles more interesting. In the Commonwealth some szlachta houses were extraordinarily powerful. Poles can be given a Consulate like the US, preferably renamed to Sejmik (additional info: Wikipedia: Sejmik) with four szlachta houses available to choose from. A sketch of my idea based on brief historical research:
House of Radziwiłł: focused on economy and archaic units
House of Sapieha: focused on artillery and heavy infantry
House of Lubomirski: focused on heavy cavalry and defensive buildings
House of Czartoryski: focused on light cavalry and grenadiers

This and the age-up system based on royal election would reflect the complexity of the Commonwealth's internal politics in my opinion.

Historical accuracy
Tilanus wrote in other thread that he'd like to add more Lithuanian elements to the Polish civ, which is a good idea IMHO, but it makes us face two problems: the flag of the civ (smaller one) and the language (bigger problem).

The flag should have the Commonwealth's coat of arms:

Also, current flag uses completely irrelevant shade of red. In mod-covered period the colour was closer to crimson than red, see here for reference: Wikipedia: Flag of Poland - Shades of red

And that's how a historic flag (or rather banner) looked - somewhat like modern Austrian flag but with the Commonwealth's coat of arms on it:


If you wish I can try to recreate a proper flag for you, it would be no problem as long ago I bought a HUGE collection (Armorial Gold if you want to know) of vector graphics to make coat of arms, banners and flags and the ones on Wikipedia are also vector so I can edit them as well.

The language problem is that until the 19th century Lithuanian was used only by peasants and in rural churches, because all the citizens and szlachta spoke Polish. Even if you decided to actually use Lithuanian, there's another thing: in 16th and 17th centuries Lithuanian we know now didn't exist, as the Old Lithuanian was quite different in terms of grammar and vocabulary and very different in speech from modern Lithuanian. Therefore I'm afraid it wouldn't be accurate to have any Lithuanian taunts in the game.

If for some reason Lithuanian flag was to be used in the mod it must be known the current one is by no means connected with the historic flag of Lithuania - it was invented in 1918, because the traditional flag (red one with Pahonia on it) was thought to bear too much resemblance to Bolshevik flag.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:42 pm    Post subject:

Double-post, but after doing in-depth historical research about the Commonwealth's banner (there was no such thing as flag in the Commonwealth) I decided to make my own one and implement it in-game.

The flag needed some simplification in order to look properly in game, but it remains historically accurate because:
1. The size of the crown over the shield was not specified, so I could make it smaller.
2. The ornament around the shield was only said to be golden, there was no mention of how it exactly looked, so I went for a simple golden border.
3. I based my banner on the one of Sigismund Vasa, but as it is meant to represent the country, not the king, I removed everything related to Vasa dynasty, that's their coat of arms and the Order of Golden Fleece.

The result is:


And I made some screenies with the flag of a scenario I started making long ago.




I can upload .ddt files if you want.


Now, about the Polish civ remake: I've realised and tested that it's possible to add politicians to any tech, not only age-ups (although I wasn't the first one to do so, after some googling I've discovered Wars of the Middle Earth modding team was the first to invent it). That could be another way of adding political depth to the game, but I'll have to think a bit longer about it as it opens a wide array of possibilities. Something like The Warchiefs' big buttons could be nice.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:42 pm    Post subject:

I'm not sure how I feel about introducing a new, fairly major, gameplay element for the sake of one civilization. Even though I understand the reasoning behind it.

Which is to say, I am actually sure.
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Pawelec_POLAND
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:30 pm    Post subject:

As the filesize is very small and installation is extremely simple (unzip the archive and put the content in your Age of Empires 3 directory, to uninstall simply delete the files you copied) I uploaded the .ddt pack of the flags. They underwent a tweak - I sharpened the coat of arms, so it is more distinguishable in game.
MediaFire: Polish-Lithuanian Flag - .ddt pack

Now for the gameplay, here's a quick comparison of possible tweaks to the Polish political system.

Age-up politicians
Pros: are already present in the game, can make a nice historical reference to free election
Cons: offer very little GUI space to describe their function what means they cannot affect the tech tree directly
Disputable: replaces the usual politician system
My thoughts: it would be quite easy to implement this solution, at least by replacing the anonymous politicians with actual candidates (or, if you don't want certain people, maybe dynasties or countries, like "Vasa candidate" or "Swedish candidate"), the idea with coin shipments would add a very nice historical touch

Szlachta houses chosen in Sejmik (Polish Consulate)
Pros: aren't age-dependent, offer a whole GUI panel to add units, shipments and techs
Cons: limited to 4 fractions
Disputable: need separate building, it would be possible to change the favoured house
My thoughts: I'm not sure if I like it, the idea was developed to fit the game rather than history, but I think it would be playable; the main problem is the width of the array of politicians would need to be sacrificed for the sake of their influence on the game

Politician techs
Pros: extremely flexible, allow many politicians in any age or building
Cons: would need much testing, offer very little GUI space to describe their function what means they cannot affect the tech tree directly
Disputable: would be a new feature
My thoughts: I like fresh ideas in all the games I play, also this can be made the most historically-accurate, as every tech would offer up to 4 politicians; imagine a market tech allowing you to choose from 4 politicians, each of them boosting a different resource gather rate (hunting and berries/woodcutting/mining and Plantations/Folwarks and herding) and you can choose only one - makes one think, doesn't it?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:32 am    Post subject:

Pawelec_POLAND wrote:
Fine, but the thing is quite revolutionary. I'll discuss only the main ideas, without going into detailed info such as tech specs or historical nuances, it will still take a LOT of words...

Alright, if you don't mind, I'll do the same with my answers since anything else would be too time-consuming for me.

Quote:
1. Polish spokesperson, Jan Sobieski, would be replaced with anonymous representative of szlachta, I'd suggest Grand Crown Hetman. That's because in fact the Commonwealth was ruled by szlachta, not by a king they elected. Besides, the whole remake idea is based on royal elections and choosing a king while playing Jan Sobieski would make no sense.

Every civ has a personalized leader in AoE3 and also NE2, Grand Crown Hetman is no person, but a title.

Pawelec_POLAND wrote:
About Sobieski I have two thoughts:
1. If the age-up politicians were to be replaced with royal election candidates it would make no sense to play as a king - you would be a king and choose a king with every age up. Who would be the king then?
2. Sobieski is considered the greatest ruler of the Commonwealth in free election period, so if I were to choose a king to represent the Commonwealth it would certainly be him, however outside Poland the battle of Vienna tends to be given much greater significance than in Poland. He may be famous, but what people outside Poland think about him and his reign is not quite true.

Besides, I found some info about Jan Sobieski which can be used in the mod.

Military reforms of John III Sobieski:
- pikes came out of use,
- musketeers were equipped with bardiches,
- dragoons and artillery came into much more common use,
- number of hussars was increased.

Fails of Jan Sobieski:
- he didn't manage to establish hereditary monarchy and continued to increase the role of sejm,
- he didn't manage to choose between Austrian-Venetian and French alliances, leaving the Commonwealth without any of those,
- he promoted many members of the house of Sapieha to high administrative positions in Grand Duchy of Lithuania, but gave them too much power, what resulted in them arranging an anti-royal riot in Lithuania.

I know I stopped using the term "historical accuracy" for a good reason. Historically-themed games can never be accurate, because they are games and not simulations. The purpose of games is mainly entertainment. Historical realities and principles can ultimately act as inspirations for game mechanisms, features and content, but you can and also should never try to equal them for the sake of keeping the benefits of games alive. For that, you need to set limits and negotiate the course of the border between too much and too few.

As for your point 1: Your question is indeed justified. As just is the question why we only pick one "politician" per age. Did you ever ask yourself what happens with them after we elected them? What it represents? Do we add them to our government or are they more like additional specialists to an already existing government? And if that is the case (which seems the most logical one to me) how do all the politicians we choose each age fit together in the end? Questions over questions. ^^ What I'm trying to say and why I gave that lengthy introduction before: If you analyse each content in the game like this you will always come to a point where things look like they're terribly wrong and contradicting. I'm not saying you shouldn't ask these questions, but rather ask yourself what is the final gain of doing it. Wink

Point 2: If you'd choose him as greatest representative as well, I see no problem. No matter how ambivalent his perception by a public audience might be.

Regarding his Reforms and Fails:
I knew about the reforms and I'll see if I can make anything out of it. The nature of fails is too abstract to connect them to something specific in the Polish civ that still needs work. If you could point out any uses for them, that are neither imbalanced nor require a complete overhaul of large parts of the Polish civ, I'm all ears. Smile


Quote:
2. The candidates for royal election replace age-up politicians. The thing is their impact on the game would be much more significant, as they would not only send shipments, but also enable researching certain techs and training certain units like Age of Mythology minor gods. This would make Poles an interesting civ to play, because their tech tree could be a bit different in every game. Brief ideas about the candidates are at the bottom of the post.

Except for the enabling, this is already all done by politicians. So while I can easily imagine stronger politicians, it's rather cosmetics and I'm not looking forward a completely unique set of Polish politicians.

Quote:
3. The Commonwealth's productive economy was based on agriculture (and by this I mean food export) and supported by forestry and related things (wood and furs were also sources of profits). There were almost no gold and very little silver mines in the Commonwealth. Also, drug and fiber plants were rarely cultivated. This means Poles should get mining and Plantation gather rate penalty. How would they get gold is described further.

While I appreciate this info, I fear it's too detailed. I'd prefer to have all civs to get the same care and attention to details and I have my doubts we'll be able to make fixes for all civs based on detailed information like yours. I'd just note down the strengths and weaknesses and see if I can tweak things.

Quote:
4. As the votes during the elections were mostly bought by the competitors, all of the candidates ship at least 100 coins. This would also make the gold penalties a bit less painful.

It sure is a compensation for an intentionally created downside in mining, but this only makes sense if both, politicians AND Polish gold gameplay would be completely reworked. I don't think the effort is worth it.

Quote:
5. The bonuses granted by the candidates' techs affect mostly the buildings with little gameplay role: Houses, Folwarks, Outposts and Docks. These may include auras, generation trickles, possibility to train units etc.

I'm not a fan of trickles and auras, because they are not physically present in the game and ugly to balance. Also, I'd disagree on the "little role" your listed buildings have in gameplay. It's huge. ^^ Apart from that, these sort of politicians benefits already exist.

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6. As the Commonwealth was always a bit technologically late compared to its neighbours, the Poles start with only 5 houses available and their limit increases by 5 with every age except Imperial. Besides, Houses support only 7 population - this is to counter the Folwark/Plantation population bonus. More strict House limit would also prevent abusing the House techs early in the game.

Well, that observation depends on the aspect. The university of Vilnius was the intellectual center of Eastern Europe as far as I'm informed. Anyway, I oppose this house restriction for a simple reason: I see the PLC as a civ with a good strong early game and getting more troubles in the later ages. That's more historical.

Quote:
7. To get sufficient amount of coin, Poles would need to get to Fortress Age. That's because Fortress Age candidates would enable coin-related techs, such as trickles and ability to buy gold crates with food (see the candidate ideas at the bottom).

Hm, without having read the candidate's details in detail. Buying crates with another resource is actually a disadvantage to trading at the market due to the delay caused by gathering. As I said at the former point, I don't think the PLC should be a civ that needs to FF to be good. In fact, I'd want them to be aggressive like Chinese as the PLC was still strong in the 16th and 17th century.

Quote:
8. Building cost bonus and HP penalty is a good and historically relevant idea, however the Tabor desperately needs to be removed (that was discussed quite often). What makes Poles considerably unbalanced civ for RMs is they absolutely lack any chances of competing at sea. That is very accurate in terms of history, but we Polish tend to forget that we actually had a small fleet of warships, which was very well-commanded and if we needed it, we could rely on it (read about blockades of Koenigsberg and Gdansk and battle of Oliwa). Also, the king Sigismunt III was very eager to expand the fleet, but szlachta successively stopped his efforts in this matter. But we are the szlachta in game, so if we want, we can allow Sigismunt Vasa (Fortress Age candidate) and Infante Manuel (Imperial Age candidate) to give us access to proper warships, but still in lesser numbers than for other civs and without any upgrades.

I agree on the Tabor. As for the fleet, could you 1) find me ship names of the PLC per ship type and 2) set the amount of used ships into relation of other war fleets of that time?
I know this would require some extensive research, but if you want me to expand that aspect, I'd need the info.
Another question: The Duchy of Courland had one of the greatest merchant fleets in all Europe. As far as I know the Duchy was a fief or vasall of the PLC. Is that correct and do you think it needs to be somehow presented?

Quote:
9. Poles need new revolutionaries, they had no colonies which could revolt. There were two types of rebellion-like events in the Commonwealth: rokosz and confederation - I bet they can somehow be used to make the thing more historically-accurate. As for the gameplay ideas I'm not very creative here as I go Imperial most of the time and I simply lack "revolutionary" experience.

All civs need new revolutionaries. Mr. Green

Quote:
Now, the candidate summary, very WIP as this is just an outline. I chose the candidates considering the following criteria:
- in which election they took part,
- if they represent the same in-game civ - I tried to avoid that,
- if they were serious candidates for the throne (this is not very relevant to Livio Odeschalchi, as I chose him to avoid duplicating the nationality).

I've recently seen a thread on the WotTA forum with a guy who posted a link to a Google Doc that contains a politician system looking very similar to your idea. Is that at any chance you? ^^

Quote:
PLC Royal Candidates Spoiler:

Colonial Age candidates
French - Henry de Valois, Prince of France:
focus: cavalry
- enables 2 Outpost techs, the second one requires the first: Tree Stand (Outposts create aura of small radius, boosting resource gather rate by 12%), Hay Rack (Outposts attract wild animals, every Outpost gains 3 XP-generating slots, which are activated by wild animals)
- sends Chasseurs, wood and coins
Italians - Alfonso II d'Este, Duke of Ferrara:
focus: Churches and Priests
- enables 2 Church techs, the second one requires the first: Relics of Saint Stanislaus (Priests and Churches create +12% attack aura of small radius; allows you to build 3 additional Churches), The Litany of Saint George (cavalry regains 2 HP/second if not in enemy's LOS)
- sends Nuncios and coins
Poles - Stephen Báthory, Prince of Transylvania:
focus: infantry
- enables 2 Folwark techs, the second one requires the first: Easements (Folwarks create aura of small radius, boosting resource gather rate by 12%), Diary Production* (enables training Cows in Folwarks, animals assigned to Folwarks fatten 12% faster)
- sends Szlachcic, Pikemen, food and coins
Germans - Maximilian II, Holy Roman Emperor:
focus: economy
- enables 2 House techs, the second one requires the first: Thatched Housing (Houses have 12% less HP, but are build 12% faster and 12% cheaper), Prosperous Households* (you can build 5 houses less, but they create aura of small radius, boosting resource gather rate by 12%)
- sends Settler Wagons, food and coins

Fortress Age candidates
Swedish - Sigismund Vasa, Prince of Sweden:
focus: artillery and navy
- enables Dock tech: Battle of Oliwa (enables 2 Galleons and 2 Fluits)
- enables Artillery Foundry tech: Leather Cover* (artillery suffers 15% less damage from ranged attacks)
- sends Falconet, Outpost Wagon and coins
Austrians - Maximilian III, Archduke of Austria:
focus: infantry
- enables House tech: Property Tax* (Houses are 15% more expensive, but generate a small amount of coin)
- enables Barracks tech: Viennese Blacksmiths* (infantry suffers 15% less damage from ranged attacks)
- grants Frontier Outpost, sends Settlers and coins
Russians - Aleksey Mikhailovich, Tsar of All Russia:
focus: defense
- enables Outpost tech: Forest Base* (Outposts have their LOS and HP increased by 15% and can train Partyzants)
- enables Folwark tech: Winter Supplies* (reduces food cost of Settlers and all infantry units by 15%)
- sends Cossacks, food and coins
Poles - Jan Sobieski, Crown Grand Hetman:
focus: cavalry
- enables Dock tech: Vistula Trade (you can buy 100 coin crates for 120 food in your Town Centers and Docks)
- enables Stable tech: Plate Metal Body Armour (cavalry suffers 15% less damage from ranged attacks)
- sends Hussars and coins

Industrial Age candidates
Germans - Frederick Augustus I, Elector of Saxony:
focus: heavy infantry and heavy cavalry
- sends Doppelsoldners, food and coins.
French - François Louis, Prince of Conti:
focus: artillery and defense
- enables House tech: Homeland Inspiration* (Houses create +18% attack aura of small radius)
- enables Artillery Foundry tech: Sokoliki (Falconets and Horse Artillery reload 18% faster, so they shoot more frequently)
- sends 1 Fort Wagon (+1 to the Fort limit) and coins
Poles - Stanisław Leszczyński, voivode of Poznan:
focus: economy and light cavalry
- enables Folwark tech: Beloved Soil* (Folwarks create +18% attack aura of small radius)
- sends Lisowczyks, wood and coins
Italians - Livio Odeschalchi, Duke of Bracciano, Ceri and Syrmia:
focus: buildings and techs
- enables University tech: Italian Architects (removes Polish building HP penalty)
- sends Merchants and coins

Imperial Age candidates
Germans - Frederick Augustus II, Elector of Saxony:
focus: economy and artillery
- sends Dragoons, Mortar and coins
Portuguese - Infante Manuel, Count of Ourém:
focus: navy and infantry
- enables Dock tech: Portuguese Shipbuilders* (upgrades Carracks to Caravels, enables 2 Frigates and 2 Monitors)
- sends Falconet, Culverine, food and coins
Poles - Stanisław Poniatowski, Grand Pantler of Lithuania:
focus: cavalry and techs
- enables Stable tech: Corps of Cadets (enables Uhlans and all their upgrades)
- enables Capitol tech: Abolition of Liberum Veto (lowers amount of coins required by all Town Center, Church, Univeristy and Capitol techs except Blockade and Spies by 25%)
- enables University tech: Thursday Dinners (Town Centers, Churches, Universities and Capitols generate small amount of XP and coin)
- sends Uhlans, wood and coins

Techs marked with * have not historically-related names and could be changed.
Also, some nice names for Polish techs: Military Reforms of Permanent Council, War of the Polish Succession, Löwenwolde's Treaty


Okay, that was a long read. First of all, I share Silmariel's observation that your politician techs are too complicated and complex to be displayed properly by the UI. I also think players hate reading extensive effect descriptions in games. Especially the many requirements will brainfuck players, because there's no good way to display the interdependencies.

I've seen you've taken a lot of care to make the candidates different from each other and historically accurate. I'm having my doubts that this will be also beneficial for balance though. High level players will tell you for example, that the change of politician benefits can have critical consequences on a civ's balance. Especially for Age 2. Chasseurs in Age 2 for the usual 800f (or a bit more) plus wood plus coins will crush every other civ's colonial politician. And any attempt to counterbalance these benefits would result in the exact opposite, which is a crappy early game.

Strong boni require an equal downside. You offered a worse gold economy as a downside, that, however, I rejected due to different expectations for Polish early gameplay and also because they already are not as good at mining as many other civs.

Quote:
Final words:

I know this is just a mess of various ideas, but I think the core of the idea is the royal election. It must be implemented to give Poles the nice feel. Trust me, I'm Polish and I something in my head simply tells me it's necessary to have the election... and the bribing element...


Don't get me wrong, I'm not totally against a new Polish politician system, but I can not agree to current the way you concepted them. I find the idea interesting though, but would recommend you to look for other ways.


Pawelec_POLAND wrote:
Gameplay idea
I've just got another idea how to make Poles more interesting. In the Commonwealth some szlachta houses were extraordinarily powerful. Poles can be given a Consulate like the US, preferably renamed to Sejmik (additional info: Wikipedia: Sejmik) with four szlachta houses available to choose from. A sketch of my idea based on brief historical research:
House of Radziwiłł: focused on economy and archaic units
House of Sapieha: focused on artillery and heavy infantry
House of Lubomirski: focused on heavy cavalry and defensive buildings
House of Czartoryski: focused on light cavalry and grenadiers
This and the age-up system based on royal election would reflect the complexity of the Commonwealth's internal politics in my opinion.

While I told you about the flaws of your current royal elections concept, I think that these four houses suit either as special Polish politicians or HC cards (like the Italian town cards). On the other hand I'd need to double-check first if the Polish don't have these possibilities already.

Quote:
Historical accuracy
Tilanus wrote in other thread that he'd like to add more Lithuanian elements to the Polish civ, which is a good idea IMHO, but it makes us face two problems: the flag of the civ (smaller one) and the language (bigger problem).

Language is easy, I can let some units speak another language, the only thing we lack right now are recordings, but I'm working on that. Regarding the actual PLC flag (as opposed to the current one) I don't really see what's the problem with it.

Quote:
The flag should have the Commonwealth's coat of arms:
[...]
Also, current flag uses completely irrelevant shade of red. In mod-covered period the colour was closer to crimson than red, see here for reference: Wikipedia: Flag of Poland - Shades of red

And that's how a historic flag (or rather banner) looked - somewhat like modern Austrian flag but with the Commonwealth's coat of arms on it:

Yes, what's exactly the problem with that historic flag? It looks good, maybe a bit too detailed for all flag resolutions, but all in one it looks fine.

Quote:
If you wish I can try to recreate a proper flag for you, it would be no problem as long ago I bought a HUGE collection (Armorial Gold if you want to know) of vector graphics to make coat of arms, banners and flags and the ones on Wikipedia are also vector so I can edit them as well.

Well, if you could recreate that historical banner as a large pixel-perfect image without color gradients (that simulate metalic light reflections) and a reduced amount of ornaments, that'd be perfect. I can do it on my own as well though.

Quote:
The language problem is that until the 19th century Lithuanian was used only by peasants and in rural churches, because all the citizens and szlachta spoke Polish. Even if you decided to actually use Lithuanian, there's another thing: in 16th and 17th centuries Lithuanian we know now didn't exist, as the Old Lithuanian was quite different in terms of grammar and vocabulary and very different in speech from modern Lithuanian. Therefore I'm afraid it wouldn't be accurate to have any Lithuanian taunts in the game.

I'm aware of that as I've done extensive language research before. Also, I do actually speak a few bits of Lithuanian since my girlfriend is Lithuanian. Mr. Green

Quote:
If for some reason Lithuanian flag was to be used in the mod it must be known the current one is by no means connected with the historic flag of Lithuania - it was invented in 1918, because the traditional flag (red one with Pahonia on it) was thought to bear too much resemblance to Bolshevik flag.

Yeah sure, know that. I've researched Polish flags a couple of times already and haven't changed it yet, because I feel that a change of flag is only appropriate when extent of changes to a civ is large enough that justifies the change.


Pawelec_POLAND wrote:
The flag needed some simplification in order to look properly in game, but it remains historically accurate because:
1. The size of the crown over the shield was not specified, so I could make it smaller.

Smaller is actually worse, because the details get lost at smaller graphics. I don't like the metallic look of the crown though. It should be plain colors.

Quote:
2. The ornament around the shield was only said to be golden, there was no mention of how it exactly looked, so I went for a simple golden border.

Doesn't look any bad. Smile

Quote:
3. I based my banner on the one of Sigismund Vasa, but as it is meant to represent the country, not the king, I removed everything related to Vasa dynasty, that's their coat of arms and the Order of Golden Fleece.

Did that also result in the CoA being moved to the center?

Quote:
The result is:


And I made some screenies with the flag of a scenario I started making long ago.
[Screenies]

I can upload .ddt files if you want.

Oh, these screenies look neat. Mr. Green You sure do know how to build some nicely looking scenes. What I like about the in-game flag is that the CoA of both Poland and Lithuania are clearly visible, but it lacks color variation and also comes across a bit too plain. Kudos to your efforts to find and create a good flag btw, I really appreciate it.

I've just had a crazy idea I'm not sure I'll like a day after I posted this: What if we take away the horizontal stripes and only focus on the CoA of Lithuania and Poland?

Quote:
Now, about the Polish civ remake: I've realised and tested that it's possible to add politicians to any tech, not only age-ups (although I wasn't the first one to do so, after some googling I've discovered Wars of the Middle Earth modding team was the first to invent it). That could be another way of adding political depth to the game, but I'll have to think a bit longer about it as it opens a wide array of possibilities. Something like The Warchiefs' big buttons could be nice.

Hehe, that's not quite true though. The US consulate in NE is a fake consulate in which the consulate choices are technically "politicians". Wink I agree that something in the shape of a building that offers unique techs would be a possible way to represent PLC politics. I just wouldn't like to stack up too many features, because too many choices and features eventually kill the fun that lies in simplicity. Maybe we could replace the Polish university or capitol with a Sejm? That, however, would require that those building's techs are still shown or represented elsewhere.

Pawelec_POLAND wrote:
As the filesize is very small and installation is extremely simple (unzip the archive and put the content in your Age of Empires 3 directory, to uninstall simply delete the files you copied) I uploaded the .ddt pack of the flags. They underwent a tweak - I sharpened the coat of arms, so it is more distinguishable in game.
MediaFire: Polish-Lithuanian Flag - .ddt pack

Uhm, I think I know how to implement flags, but thanks for the upload. I've downloaded them.

@Age-up politicians
I'd rather limit it to tweaking existing unique PLC politicians and/or adding new ones that take your candidates as examples without being so heavy.

@Unique building
I like the idea, but yet lack a good concept that fits in without overloading the civ with an additional feature. Maybe it can be built by the Hetman or Szlachcic?

@Politician techs
Where'd you want to store them? In the Sejm?

@Homecity
You have forgotten that. I consider that an option as well.
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Pawelec_POLAND
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
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Location: Poland

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:48 pm    Post subject:

Long time no reply, but final exams in Polish high schools take place in the first weeks of May, so I take my time to prepare properly. Inspired by your commentary I gave my intial ideas more thought and I think they got tailored (and by that I mean smaller and less revolutionary).

@Me, WotTA and the posted idea
Honestly I have very little idea what WotTA mod revolves around, as the number of civs they implement make me feel the mod has to be very unbalanced. So no, the guy who posted that idea sheet is not me, but I find it hard to believe his ideas are so similar to mine (but given the fact they are quite much inspired by Age of Kings mod, Age of Chivalry: Hegemony, such a situation could take place). In the beginning I had been planning the candidates to enable certain units, but I realised how much it would ruin the balance.

@The flag
Removing the shines from the crown is no problem, I can also make the shield use different shade of red than the flag and make the white stripe not so white, in fact it was hard to make perfectly white cloth before the 20th century. I'm afraid for the sake of accuracy the stripes cannot be removed. The coat of arms should be centered, as if you remove the three triangles from the original banner it becomes centered. Bigger crown looks quite bad, as it makes the coat of arms go below the central stripe what looks awful.

The installation instructions were for anyone who'd like to try the new flag, not only for you (if you didn't know how to install flags this mod would never exist).

@Duchy of Courland and Semigalia
Oh, I'm glad someone stressed that, as it's quite important. While the PLC itself showed almost no potential on the seas, the Duchy of Courland, its fief from 1561 and part of the PLC from 1569 to 1726, even attempted colonisation of Trynidad and Tobago, but the colony was conquered by Dutch after 50 years of existance. They also maintained to upkeep 3 forts in Gambia but Couronians were forced to cede them to Germans. I'll do proper research on Couronian fleet and make a short report afterwards.

@Polish navy in-game
Now I think I got lost. I've been playing Lake Baikal and Nile River maps and Poles get full navy there - Caravels, Galleons, Frigates and Monitors. Should they get them or have only Carracks available like e.g. in the Rhine map? If they are supposed to get full navy access in the marine maps then I cannot complain about it and everything I wrote about Polish navy was unnecessary.

@Age-up system
You're right, the intial idea was too complex, but I still think Poles should get individual set of politicians. I think a nice pattern would be for every candidate to give a small bonus (like American politicians but smaller), grant already existing tech (from Fortress Age those would be veteran, guard and imperial upgrades; the problem is what Colonial candidates would give instead) and send a shipment. This would make a nice addition without ruining the balance. Potential Colonial Age candidate would look like this:
Alfonso d'Este
2 Priests and 1 Settler
-10% Church techs' costs
grants LoS techs

I know you wouldn't like to make a special set of politicians for Poles but I'll insist Wink

@Polish explorer and the Sejmik building
Given the fact Poles will get the regular, immortal explorer I think he should be the only unit capable of constructing the Sejmik (not Sejm - sejm was a meeting of all szlachta in one place, not that place itself, while sejmik was a place where local szlachta met regularly to vote on local administrative matters, there were many sejmiks so having one in our colony in game makes sense while having sejm, which was only one in the whole Commonwealth, doesn't). However, the idea of having multiple explorers but without ranged attack seems very nice. I'd suggest giving the Poles immortal Hetman explorer and allowing him to train Regimentarze (singular Regimentarz), who would technically be what we now have as Szlachcics. Historically regimentarze were officers who were chosen by the hetman to command part of the army instead of him.

I think it would also be nice to move the age-ups to the Sejmik, so it would be necessary in order to advance (I would consider lowering the amount of Folwarks needed to age-up by one then). It would make even more sense and add more flavour with the election candidates as age-up politicians - you'd need to build Sejmik in order to choose the king.

Apart from the age-ups, the Sejmik would allow players to research special Polish techs, some of them being Politician Techs. Some kind of shipments like Consulate ones would also be possible, maybe age-up candidates could enable one shipment in every age instead of granting a tech. Here's an example of a Colonial Age candidate:
Stephen Báthory
3 Pikemen
+10% infantry HP
enables food shipment

@Polish units - Cossack/Tatar issue and cavalry system
Surprise here, after some reading I discovered the Tabor isn't that inaccurate. In fact it's very accurate, but it needs to have lower stats. When it comes to the PLC, there were Zaporozhian Cossacks, who were using Tabors (in Polish the term tabor kozacki - Cossack tabor - is commonly used to described these) and had great infantry (but poor cavalry), mostly ranged, trained in fighting from behind tabors. I'm writing about that because Partyzant unit makes little sense to me and I think it should be replaced.

I don't know why most people think of cavalry when they mention Cossacks, their riders may have looked interestingly, but in fact were very weak on the battlefield.

Polish cavalry in the mod suffers from one but huge historical inaccuracy. Polish winged hussars were actually the heaviest cavalry in the whole army, while the role of what other nations called hussars was taken by uhlans.

So here's how I would see Polish army:

Replacement unit: Zaporozhian
Replaces Partyzant. Ranged infantry, relatively cheap, trained in Barracks, stronger in numbers. Gets small attack bonus against artillery.
Has HC card (replacing Wojsko Komputowe), Treaty of Kurukove: Zaporozhians' get attack boost and small attack bonus against cavalry.

New unit: Lipka Tatar
Cavalry archer, relatively cheap, trained in Stable, stronger in numbers. Gets bonus against cavalry and small bonus against infantry.

Replacement unit: Cossack Tabor
Replaces Tabor. Can be trained in limited number (3-4) in Stable. Can train Zaporozhians and Lipka Tatars. Can garrison infantry. Resistant to cavalry attacks. In Fortified Mode reduces damage taken by allied infantry and artillery.
Has HC card replacing Wagenburg card, Battle of Obertyn: Increases Cossack Tabor HP and allows you to train 3 more Cossack Tabors.

New unit: Winged Hussar
Relatively expensive heavy cavalry using lances, has bonus against other cavalry.

Replacement unit: Uhlan (already exists)
Replaces Hussar.

@Penalties
I know giving Poles more powerful politicians and moving age-ups to different building (allowing players to train Settlers during the age-up) needs a sacrifice somewhere else, but it's quite hard to invent it. What I can suggest is to make all technologies take longer to research and military technologies to be more expensive, also HC shipments could take longer to arrive or need more XP.

@Polish HC
After a brief look I can say the current card tree looks nice, but what I don't like is the fact Poles have no cards allowing them to hire Landsknechts for coin. I'd also rename the Sejm card to Clientelism.
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