Population increase suggestion?

 
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How much population would you like?
200 population (fine as it is)
40%
 40%  [ 8 ]
300 population (just a little more)
30%
 30%  [ 6 ]
200-500 pop is fine
10%
 10%  [ 2 ]
750 is good
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
1000
20%
 20%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 20

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shumpu123
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:27 pm    Post subject: Population increase suggestion?

Hey guys,

I was playing the mod (extremely fantastic what you have done with AoEIII Smile ) and was enjoying it very much.

I normally play with a pop tool mod by NICIFIER that allows population to be set to whatever you want (the limit seems to be 1000, which is good enough for me), but it doesn't work with this mod (probably because the mod runs on Age3n.exe, not age3y.exe like WoTa does, which explains why it works for WoTa and not NE).

I tried it on Napoleonic Era, thinking it would work. Then I realized that the population cap didn't increase above 200.

The mod involves the Napoleonic Wars, which had massive armies (1 million plus for France). I love how the mercenaries and such have 0 population count, which I gladly made use of and added a 0 for all the build limits for mercenaries (so 12 would now be 120).

So I was thinking, what if there could be an option for 1000 pop limit? I know that many are in love with 200 pop limit and all, but look at AoE II. It was at 200, then got a HD release, and that new pop limit was 1000. Many felt weird about this, but then readjusted and found that 1000 is better. For one, it allowed for better strategies. Sure spamming units is one tactic with a population limit so high, but the threat of a giant army is really big. With the 200 limit, you know that there wont be such a threat. However, with 1000 limit, the enemy's army can be really massive.
Many high level players adjusted with this as well. Armies at first wont get much larger than 300, but as the emipre grows, you will find that the size of armies increases drastically and you work for a larger army.

I'm not saying readjust the pop limit to 1000 for the mod, but what about including an option for it? The pop tool is incredibly easy and if you guys want to learn from it (exe editing) I can put it up. The old link to it is broken.

No I'm not spoiled by population lol. It's just that I think this is a tool that is overlooked. It is able to change a hardcoded exe limit, which can unlock many other possibilites for other things.

Or maybe even including a compatibility version, since renaming age3n.exe to age3y.exe didn't work either.


Possible new strategies and gameplay changes that would result from pop cap increase:

Warfare is upscaled basically.

Allows for more of an expansionist playstyle. Small area can't suit your growing country anymore. Need more space for building all the houses.

Armies are really big. Can sometimes start "cold wars", where you don't know the other army's size and you yourself start massing yours. Sure scouting can help a big, but not if he hides his army.

You can have a home defense while your offense dies.

Can make use of more strategies, such as the large box formation tactic in the battle of waterloo, where there were multiple boxes of infantry to ward off cavalry.

Column formation - thick cluster of infantry used to break through ranks of infantry. Can fire over each other.

THin line formation - used by british. Shots could surround enemy.


Some could argue that the enemy could spam artillery all day every day. This cannot be the case unless you allow the enemy to do so.
Armies can be amassed to large sizes while fighting the enemy. Artillery units are very expensive. 500 wood and i tihnk around the same for gold is very wasteful. that 500 gol dcan be used to make 8-10 infantrymen.
Or 3-4 cavalry.






I dont feel that 1000 pop limit is cheating as some may think, but makes for more interesting gameplay and battles and involves different strategies. The AI in AoEIII and WoTa seemed to function just fine with the mod on (compared to setting pop limit to 0 for all units. This broke the AI for me)



Just my thoughts on the matter.

Keep up the great work!
Sincerely,
-shumpu123
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soonermoon
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:32 am    Post subject: Population

This needs to be a must do...
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:22 am    Post subject:

It is not. 200 is a good limit and that's not only because it is the traditional pop limit in any Age of Empires game.

Neither the map sizes nor the engines' performance are optimized for so many units per player. The majority of players has always much worse internet connection and PC performance than the few that wouldn't mind it.
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soonermoon
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:31 pm    Post subject:

Yeah, it's too screwy I concluded after a couple more hours last night... Made me Happy to play it 'as is' after all...
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SAOL
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:26 pm    Post subject:

8000 units on the same map. How many of them would have to be settlers anyway? I know there was a similar game to age of empires that used to have such a high pop limit? Can't recall the name though Confused How did they solve it?

I agree that it's not a good idea.
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Aprosdoketon
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:50 am    Post subject:

SAOL wrote:
Can't recall the name though Confused

Cossacks?
Also Empire Earth had pretty high population limits, but it was less common to have enormous armies...
SAOL wrote:
I agree that it's not a good idea.

I agree. It would create too much confusion.
The only "mass" thing I ever complained in AOE was the limitation to the selection of a big group to 40 (50, later) units... a little uncomfortable for Cnscripts or Strelets lol
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SAOL
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:10 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Also Empire Earth had pretty high population limits, but it was less common to have enormous armies...
Oh, that was it. You could have pretty large forces if you cheated...

Quote:
The only "mass" thing I ever complained in AOE was the limitation to the selection of a big group to 40 (50, later) units... a little uncomfortable for Cnscripts or Strelets
Sometimes it is, but often it's just as good to split up your troops in smaller units anyway.
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stubbo
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:55 pm    Post subject:

My view is the game doesn't NEED to have a bigger population size.

However...if it was some way readily configurable, so the default remained 200, but for those wishing to increase the scale to say 500 per team (or even the 1000 mooted) then it would surely be a no-brainer (unless it was a hard thing to implement).

There's plenty of colossal sized maps out there, and it would certainly see a different style of gameplay, with map colonization, outreach towns, etc forming.

I'd be interested to play with such a set of features. I don't see the machine capability as a huge issue...that's no different to decisions around what level to set graphics at.

But whilst I doubt it would become the standard, the option would certainly be interesting and desirable to have.
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roy1012
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:19 pm    Post subject:

I would only support a population increase if and only if the default was 200 and you could change it, as stubbo said. Me and my friends play long free for alls and that would be interesting to have 500 population per person, however everyone would just artillery spam most likely and lag the game with 800 cannons shooting at each other.
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Crazy Crusher
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:28 pm    Post subject:

roy1012 wrote:
I would only support a population increase if and only if the default was 200 and you could change it, as stubbo said. Me and my friends play long free for alls and that would be interesting to have 500 population per person, however everyone would just artillery spam most likely and lag the game with 800 cannons shooting at each other.


I agree.
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IgorJ
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:56 pm    Post subject: Population increase

Please increase it...
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:25 am    Post subject:

The performance would suffer a lot. NE is not only for westerners with decent machines whose gfx cards have great GPUs.

So I don't consider increasing the pop limit for all civs, not even as an option because that would lead to a further fragmentation of match types. In AoE3 there are already plenty of ways to pass the nominal limit of 200 pop (natives, techs, politicians, HC cards, ..). Additionally the different pop costs per civ already result in every civ being able to reach a different absolute unit count within (and above) the 200 pop line.

If you want a civ to train a lot of units, one could also just reduce the pop costs of its trainable regular and unique units. I do intend to downscale a few units in the future (including their pop). 200 pop in AoE3 is not 200 units as in AoE2. Depending on how you compose your army and use techs etc. it can be only 100 but also 300 units (someone once achieved 430 with US).

So a higher (nominal) pop cap than 200 *can* be a bonus for a specific NE civ, but even that would basically mean the room for pop exploiters only gets bigger. Imagine a civ with 250pop +/-100 units versus a civ that relies a lot on pop-heavy units (and is hardly likely to reach a nominal count of 200). That'd be quite imba. For all civs it's unthinkable.

If you like armies with lots of units you'll have to go with Russians and Chinese.
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