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Tilanus Commodor
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Joined: 03 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:02 am    Post subject:

Wow, that's - once again - a fairly extensive list you made there, Silmariel. Seems we share an affinity for lists ^^ I agree we should be drinkin a godly beer, preferably in Gerat Britain. Mr. Green Razz

I'll go through each civ's card once I'm applying my rework plans for them also to their HCs. Have already saved it internally. Cool

The Swedish Arsenal bonus will be reworked, so these unique cards will reduce in number (and likely also in effect). Thanks for pointing out certain other unique cards as well.

#Free units/Free Healing
What MR was that? 18? In that regard I keep it with Adenauer (Wat interessiert mich mein Jeschwätz von jestern), or, well, at least to some extent. Perspectives change and plans accordingly. I still try to stick to my announcements as close as possible. Between fixing civ by civ is something different than making a new fundament and squeezing it into a (formerly) running system. ^^ So DHH+Uhlan is going to stay.
The reasons why Poland, Persia or Denmark shouldn't get that bonus remain also unchanged. I still prefer to just replace the Doppelsöldner with another either regular or new unique unit.

#Chevauleger/Elite-units
Please re-read, I explicitely refused the term 'Chasseur a cheval' or any translation of it.
I must admit I don't know anymore about the introduction of the Chevauleger as a standard cavalry next to or instead of the Hussar. Two reasons. Number one: The multitude of melee cavalry troops is quite high already and I see few to no use to have a dozen lookalikes both, visually and statistically. Especially a new upcoming unique Italian cavalry unit is very similar to that concept of yours that again is quite similar to my idea for the NE3 Chevauleger. Here the stats of the Italian horseman:
Quote:
2pop
6.5 speed
385 HP
13 LOS
42 train seconds
120f 120c
20%rr
22XP

24 siege dmg
30 trample dmg (area 3)
34 melee dmg


Number two: Even though solvable, the name is reserved in a couple of unique cases already. First, we have the elite unit that you don't but that I do like. Second, then the planned or already existent references of Bavarians, Germans/Hessians, Polish and French.

But well, you definitely got me thinking. Finding other stats for the Italian unit should be possible, maybe make it a bit heavier or 'fancier'. On the other hand Chevaulegers could also be a dragoon-hussar mix. This would be quite experimental though.


Your ideas for the Levee en masse have the right course, but I'm not going to reveal how much. Wink Razz

#Dutch
MR 18, see above. Dutch units costing coin + Dutch Musketeers are still a thing to me.

#Others
- "Puszta Cavalry" still sounds cheap to me, even though I do not object to the riding skills of the people in those region. Sounds more like a tech or card to me honestly.
- I'll look into assigning the correct riding schools, promised. Wink
- Yes, Kyrissers are name-wise Cuirassiers, but they're the first - quite early - mention of Austrian cuirassiers. So yeah, Age 2 is a possibility, even though visually they'd be closer to Black Riders (agaaaain ^^).
- Ah, I'm just joking about Silesia. Razz
- You can invent new tags, but not really display them in the UI. As far as I know you can refer to them in tech effects though, which results in some effect for real, but once again without any display of it occuring within the tech or card descriptions.
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Silmariel
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:11 pm    Post subject:

Tilanus Commodor wrote:
Wow, that's - once again - a fairly extensive list you made there, Silmariel. Seems we share an affinity for lists ^^ I agree we should be drinkin a godly beer, preferably in Gerat Britain. Mr. Green Razz


Sure, seems like a great place to drink a beer. Wink

Quote:
I'll go through each civ's card once I'm applying my rework plans for them also to their HCs. Have already saved it internally. Cool


If that also includes removing level-locks as announced earlier, that would be really good. But be careful with removing certain cards that might seem redundant at first: for example the two cossack-shipments a crucial for most Russian rushes.

There is also one thing which could be worth considering: as far as I see all booster cards only strengthen a maximum of 3 units at once. Even more often this effect is restricted to two units if there are special ones (Spanish and French melee cavalry for example; gunpowder infantry for Portugal and France while they actually have a full share on infantry units). You might discard this entirely or make those boosters fit accordingly, I only thought this might be good to bring to your attention.

Quote:
The Swedish Arsenal bonus will be reworked, so these unique cards will reduce in number (and likely also in effect). Thanks for pointing out certain other unique cards as well.


Reworked arsenal is certainly a good idea.


#Free units/Free Healing et al

Well, I guess I cannot change your mind here. Another associated idea that popped up in my mind recently was that free but slow healing for all units might be something for Italians if they are closely allied with the Papal States: while they would have easy access to priests and thus healers anyway it would be more interesting to give those priests a more versatile role. While they should not boost military directly I think it could be interesting if priests would provide a small, non-stackable economic aura so that you would need about 1 priest per mill or plantation to increase economic growth instead of granting tcs such an aura. Also considering Italian naval strength in those times it could be fun to boost warships by manning them with priests similar to Spanish unction (non-stackable though).

#Chevauleger/Elite-units
Quote:

I must admit I don't know anymore about the introduction of the Chevauleger as a standard cavalry next to or instead of the Hussar. Two reasons. Number one: The multitude of melee cavalry troops is quite high already and I see few to no use to have a dozen lookalikes both, visually and statistically. Especially a new upcoming unique Italian cavalry unit is very similar to that concept of yours that again is quite similar to my idea for the NE3 Chevauleger. Here the stats of the Italian horseman:
Quote:
2pop
6.5 speed
385 HP
13 LOS
42 train seconds
120f 120c
20%rr
22XP

24 siege dmg
30 trample dmg (area 3)
34 melee dmg


Number two: Even though solvable, the name is reserved in a couple of unique cases already. First, we have the elite unit that you don't but that I do like. Second, then the planned or already existent references of Bavarians, Germans/Hessians, Polish and French.

But well, you definitely got me thinking. Finding other stats for the Italian unit should be possible, maybe make it a bit heavier or 'fancier'. On the other hand Chevaulegers could also be a dragoon-hussar mix. This would be quite experimental though.


We already have such a dragoon-hussar-mix. It's the Prussian Death's Head Hussar.

I don't know how far developed this Italian unit of yours is of now and actually I don't want to meddle with the (re-) design of the Italian civ unlike I did with HRE or (a bit) with Austria BUT...

...a few thougts on:
Italy itself:
You once announced your intention to form them into a civ comprised of businessmen, artists/researchers and clergy. Currently this is very well depicted even though it could be interesting to expand on those three branches a bit more, cancelling out the others if you chose one. But I think that's where the Italian strength should come from. Not strong units but advanced techs, thus allowing you to weaken the enemy through intrigues and astonishing them with your newest inventions; economic wealth from trade and seafaring allowing you to field the best foreign troops instead of the poorly trained citizien militia; and if there is nothing else left, there is still the condemning power of the pope. By the way though: is it possible to grant the statues a small area affect instead of an ability with a cooldown?

Italian cavalry: While Italy certainly deserves a replacement for the condottiere (and maybe also their early dragoon replacement) but let us not forget that they already have access to the elmeti which is already a genuine Italian unit. Instead of giving them a strong unique cavalry unit I'd consider adding a similar unit through a church tech or one of those foreign expert's companies.Or the elmeti could be reshaped into a cheap, early lancer-mercenary instead of having a knight fighting in medieval fashion obtainable only in the IV age. Considering the historic fact that there were only few horses in Portugal also the early dragoons shipment could be shifted from Portugal to Italy.

Shared units: We all know that the setup of European armies was quite similar most of the time. If there was a new invention, most neighbouring countries would copy it sooner or later. So while unique-units are certainly cool I wouldn't mind for more shared units similar to the dragoons/mounted archer system that was inherited from normal AoE. They could still differ through the use of RG-upgrades and homecityshipments. Returning to the example of mounted archers which already differ widely in use: With normal AoE there are only two civs with mounted archers, that is Russia and the Ottoman Empire. While the Russians have a royal guard upgrade, Ottomans lack those. But Ottomans have one of the strongest heavy infantry units in game, thus they hardly need another good anti-cavalry (that's also why I dislike civs having RG's solely on one unit type; Dutch and Portugese solely have anti-cavalry-RG). But they can expand their mounted archers field of activity by sending the "Irregular force"-shipment, making the Ottoman Mounted Archers superb raiders as villagers also don't have range resistance. On the other hand Russian infantry is weaker than their European counterpart, thus they need a strong anti-cavalry unit that can also act as a tank because neither their musketeers nor their halberdiers can. If we now check the melee-cavalry unit roster: the Hussar is the standard melee-cavalry for all civs with the exceptions noted below.

Chevauleger: The chevauleger i proposed is somewhat similar. With the expanding number of nations NE brought we can also have more shared units. There is no problem if France is not the only nation with cuirassiers anymore. They will still be better than any other nation ones as only France should have a RG for them, as well as the cheap-and-instant-training. Why not let the Hussar being the generic melee-cavalry for western states, the Uhlan for eastern states (including Denmark) and the Chevauleger the generic unit for central European states (i.e. Austria, HRE and Italy; maybe Dutch and USA?). While Russia, Sweden, Persians and the Ottoman Empire retain their special cavalry units also thanks to being on the geographical periphery. Chevauleger act differently than both hussar and uhlan, with their bonus against cavalry they are already sort of very early and not full anti-cavalry and would fit well with the defensive strat of all three states. Also their cost could be tweaked to fit the coin-based economy of Italy and HRE (maybe 80 food/120 coin) while the semi-Inhaber you suggested could render them a viable choice for Austrians, even though they already have their superb Hungarian hussars.
And for the Bavarians: we already have so many units over time-techs for natives. I think it could be an interesting turn if Bavarians enable chevauleger in the stable (similar to the original iroquis-natives' tech) and granting a special upgrade for them (similar to RG). Unique techs could change those chevauleger drastically. Few quickly made up examples:
Light Cavalry (US): Chevauleger sacrifice their anti-cavalry ability for addtional speed (similar to Dutch Military Reforms for their Halberdiers)
Einheitskavallerie(HRE): Chevauleger deal additional damage against cavalry (thus Germans have no more need for warwagons nor dragoons) but cost more resources
Chevauleger-lancier (FRA homecity): sacrificing their anti-cavalry-ability they deal more damage against ranged and heavy infantry


Unique Italian cavalrymen: Well, they hardly look special for me. A bit of a boosted hussar there, a bit of nerfed cuirassier on the other side. Even if you don't consider any of the ideas above, I'm pretty sure this Italian cavalrymen there could benefit from some special ability/more unique stats.

#Others
Quote:
- "Puszta Cavalry" still sounds cheap to me, even though I do not object to the riding skills of the people in those region. Sounds more like a tech or card to me honestly.


It was never supposed to be a unit?! I said it would be good to replace the currently Balkans Cavalry (which is at least an equal ridicolous name) homecity-card.

Quote:
- I'll look into assigning the correct riding schools, promised. Wink


I had reported this so many times, so here is a wish coming through it seems Wink

Quote:
- Yes, Kyrissers are name-wise Cuirassiers, but they're the first - quite early - mention of Austrian cuirassiers. So yeah, Age 2 is a possibility, even though visually they'd be closer to Black Riders (agaaaain ^^).


Well, I don't see a problem here. Cuirassiers are age III units still, so I think there is no skin for age II so you could make one of your liking (as close or different to black riders as you wish) I guess.
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 7:32 pm    Post subject:

It took me some time to answer to your not so short post (you can't even imagine, I did write every time a bit I went to/from work on my cell phone Mr. Green)
Quote:
Sure, seems like a great place to drink a beer.

When are you free for a drink? Razz

Quote:
If that also includes removing level-locks as announced earlier, that would be really good. But be careful with removing certain cards that might seem redundant at first: for example the two cossack-shipments a crucial for most Russian rushes.

Yes, that includes the removal of level locks. Also, don't worry, Edeholland, our balance expert, cared to stress the importance of multiple unit cards already.

Quote:
There is also one thing which could be worth considering: as far as I see all booster cards only strengthen a maximum of 3 units at once. Even more often this effect is restricted to two units if there are special ones (Spanish and French melee cavalry for example; gunpowder infantry for Portugal and France while they actually have a full share on infantry units). You might discard this entirely or make those boosters fit accordingly, I only thought this might be good to bring to your attention.

Yeah, large tags shall be used with caution, which is all but easy in this overwhelmingly large and complex minefield of techs. As I said, there are valid reasons to give some civs boosters with less range.

Quote:
Well, I guess I cannot change your mind here. Another associated idea that popped up in my mind recently was that free but slow healing for all units might be something for Italians if they are closely allied with the Papal States: while they would have easy access to priests and thus healers anyway it would be more interesting to give those priests a more versatile role. While they should not boost military directly I think it could be interesting if priests would provide a small, non-stackable economic aura so that you would need about 1 priest per mill or plantation to increase economic growth instead of granting tcs such an aura. Also considering Italian naval strength in those times it could be fun to boost warships by manning them with priests similar to Spanish unction (non-stackable though).

Currently Italians do not need more eco benefits, but less. Also, they do already have a quite unique naval and healer gameplay. The Danish are a much better target for these sort of ideas.

Quote:
#Chevauleger
We already have such a dragoon-hussar-mix. It's the Prussian Death's Head Hussar.

True, even though they have quite prominent stats (since they are a unique unit). I did more imagine a ranged hussar so to speak also. A ranged cav that deals plain damage without any boni.

Quote:
Italy itself:
You once announced your intention to form them into a civ comprised of businessmen, artists/researchers and clergy. Currently this is very well depicted even though it could be interesting to expand on those three branches a bit more, cancelling out the others if you chose one. But I think that's where the Italian strength should come from. Not strong units but advanced techs, thus allowing you to weaken the enemy through intrigues and astonishing them with your newest inventions; economic wealth from trade and seafaring allowing you to field the best foreign troops instead of the poorly trained citizien militia; and if there is nothing else left, there is still the condemning power of the pope.

I haven't rejected these ideas just because I want to modernize the Italian land military. They had and thus can have native strong units. Strong is yet an abstract term and does not specify aspects such as costs, availability, etc. Don't worry. Smile

Quote:
By the way though: is it possible to grant the statues a small area affect instead of an ability with a cooldown?

They have that already IMO.

Quote:
Italian cavalry: While Italy certainly deserves a replacement for the condottiere (and maybe also their early dragoon replacement) but let us not forget that they already have access to the elmeti which is already a genuine Italian unit. Instead of giving them a strong unique cavalry unit I'd consider adding a similar unit through a church tech or one of those foreign expert's companies.Or the elmeti could be reshaped into a cheap, early lancer-mercenary instead of having a knight fighting in medieval fashion obtainable only in the IV age. Considering the historic fact that there were only few horses in Portugal also the early dragoons shipment could be shifted from Portugal to Italy.

Yeah right, let's not forget the Elmeti: An archaic, medieval, historically badly covered unit that is the exact opposite side of Italians that I intend to show. ^^
I'd like to turn the Elmeti into a Demi Lancer merc at best. Possibly with reduced stats, ajusted for earlier ages. Right now, elmetis and mams are the tankiest mercs, unrighteously IMO. I'll step by step adjust merc stats to specific ages (as once announced in a MR). Wink

The hint on moving further Dragoon boni from Portugal to other civs is a good idea, even though I'd not say that Italy is better suited for that. What about Britain, Spain or HRE? These civs had in history either early prototypical gunpowder cavalry (Black Riders, or a special tradition with Dragoons (like the British army).

Quote:
Shared units: We all know that the setup of European armies was quite similar most of the time. If there was a new invention, most neighbouring countries would copy it sooner or later. So while unique-units are certainly cool I wouldn't mind for more shared units similar to the dragoons/mounted archer system that was inherited from normal AoE. They could still differ through the use of RG-upgrades and homecityshipments. Returning to the example of mounted archers which already differ widely in use: With normal AoE there are only two civs with mounted archers, that is Russia and the Ottoman Empire. While the Russians have a royal guard upgrade, Ottomans lack those. But Ottomans have one of the strongest heavy infantry units in game, thus they hardly need another good anti-cavalry (that's also why I dislike civs having RG's solely on one unit type; Dutch and Portugese solely have anti-cavalry-RG). But they can expand their mounted archers field of activity by sending the "Irregular force"-shipment, making the Ottoman Mounted Archers superb raiders as villagers also don't have range resistance. On the other hand Russian infantry is weaker than their European counterpart, thus they need a strong anti-cavalry unit that can also act as a tank because neither their musketeers nor their halberdiers can. If we now check the melee-cavalry unit roster: the Hussar is the standard melee-cavalry for all civs with the exceptions noted below.

With the Persians, there'll be 3 civs with CAs (all with RGs). Wink In NE civs get a lot more RGs in general, in all different fields. That's mainly because it's a good efficient way for us to feature a lot more popular units of a civ without having to introduce dozens of new units or special one-time techs. I know about the cost-wise disadvantage or obstacle that comes with RGs and intend to create a shared HC card or Uni tech that reduces those costs so that it becomes a viable option for civs with a lot of RGs.

From a designer's perspective who enjoys a lot of different history games, it's not my favorite method though. Sometimes I'd like the order to be more flexible actually and am yet looking for a civ to be my design victim. Devil

Quote:
There is no problem if France is not the only nation with cuirassiers anymore. They will still be better than any other nation ones as only France should have a RG for them, as well as the cheap-and-instant-training.

There is a problem and that is the amount of techs/cards that can easily double or triple cuirassier boosts unintendedly, if you 'just' make the Cuirassier avl for almost every Euro civ. Every time you add a unit you have to recheck the entire spectrum of tech synergies and that's a hell of brainfucking, analytical work. The entire infrastructure of boosters sadly doesn't align automatically or have an in-built OPness monitor with green, yellow and red LEDs. Razz

Quote:
Why not let the Hussar being the generic melee-cavalry for western states, the Uhlan for eastern states (including Denmark) and the Chevauleger the generic unit for central European states (i.e. Austria, HRE and Italy; maybe Dutch and USA?). While Russia, Sweden, Persians and the Ottoman Empire retain their special cavalry units also thanks to being on the geographical periphery.

I don't see a fundamental gain of this systematic approach. It's neither more historical nor is it adjusted to the civ's individual unit selection/balance. Sounds like a rushed, quick shot to me that's primarily motivated by the (very German) wish to have nicely ordered, but yet arbitrarily composed, bureaucratic systems that follow an utterly abstract logic. Generic units will be shared or not shared case by case. Wink

You mention a good point though, Ottoman Hussars feel wrong. Akincilar are not really an option, because they are the Ottoman CA RG. The new Ottoman Hussar RG will be the Deli. It might work as unique melee cav too, yet I lack an unique concept though.

Quote:
Chevauleger act differently than both hussar and uhlan, with their bonus against cavalry they are already sort of very early and not full anti-cavalry and would fit well with the defensive strat of all three states. Also their cost could be tweaked to fit the coin-based economy of Italy and HRE (maybe 80 food/120 coin) while the semi-Inhaber you suggested could render them a viable choice for Austrians, even though they already have their superb Hungarian hussars.

I never said that C. are meant to be anti-cav. I wanted them to be the heavier Hussars.
I've spoken to Edeholland in that regard and we could agree on giving the C. slightly stronger stats than of the Hussar and making the Hussar also notably lighter, 'quicker' as well. So they will also take slightly different roles in actual gameplay. I yet have no final replacement concept for the Italian cavalryman, but I can imagine a couple of scenarios already. Italians would indeed get C., just like Germans and Austrians, possibly also French and Spanish. Here are the stats:

Quote:
Chevauleger
2 Pop
6.5 Speed
320 HP
15 LOS
40 seconds
100f 100c
20% rr
20 XP

20 siege dmg
26(3) trample dmg (area)
32 melee dmg (x0.8 LC)
35 guardian dmg

Quote:
Hussar (new)
2 Pop
6.75 Speed
290 HP (-30)
15 LOS
32 seconds (-8 )
120f 60c (-20)
20% rr
20 XP

22 siege dmg (+2)
20(3) trample dmg (area)
29 melee dmg (x0.8 LC) (-1)
30 guardian dmg


Quote:
And for the Bavarians: we already have so many units over time-techs for natives. I think it could be an interesting turn if Bavarians enable chevauleger in the stable (similar to the original iroquis-natives' tech) and granting a special upgrade for them (similar to RG).

I like the mercs-per-minute techs actually, because they notably raise the appeal of natives, make nice historical/regional references and embed other non-natives game content. It makes me personally regard them as strong natives as opposed to the native american natives that always felt inferior and underdeveloped. Of course we can alter the type of tech that makes these mercs available (i.e. fixed amount or enabled training at TP/Embassy).

Enabling a Chevauleger for anyone (?) who researches the tech in their respective stables seems to result in some pretty awkward army compositions. I really don't wanna see Aztec or Japanese Chevaulegers. This has, even though limited to maps with Bavarians, the same quality as 'cuirs for everyone'. It simply feels wrong to go that far just to have a fancy feature.

I didn't comment the civ-specific Chevauleger ideas because they don't match with the stats and role I intend to give the Chevauleger.

Quote:
Unique Italian cavalrymen: Well, they hardly look special for me. A bit of a boosted hussar there, a bit of nerfed cuirassier on the other side. Even if you don't consider any of the ideas above, I'm pretty sure this Italian cavalrymen there could benefit from some special ability/more unique stats.

That's the plan for Chevaulegers though and it only reads boring, because of the way you put it. I could describe many other interesting and useful units in the same 'it's just a modified xy' manner. Not helpful.
In actual sup games you will experience the differences much better. (Wer nicht hören will, muss fühlen Razz )

Most units in the game are 'just' differently scaled variations and interpolations of each other. That makes them look plain only on paper, but in the actual gameplay you feel the differences in a much more obvious way, because of the dynamic interplay. So even at the big picture seemingly small differences can have a great effect.

Quote:
It was never supposed to be a unit?! I said it would be good to replace the currently Balkans Cavalry (which is at least an equal ridicolous name) homecity-card.

No, it never was, but I already applied your suggestion. Smile

Quote:
Well, I don't see a problem here. Cuirassiers are age III units still, so I think there is no skin for age II so you could make one of your liking (as close or different to black riders as you wish) I guess.

I neither see a problem. Wink You just asked in some seemingly derogative way if "Kyrissers" wouldn't "simply translate to Cuirassiers being available in age II through HC-shipment". So yeah, it's nothing more, I agree. Either Church tech or HC card, I don't really mind.
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Silmariel
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:26 am    Post subject:

#Italians
Well, I see Italy having lots of priests available but for no real purpose. Only current European civ with unique priest-gameplay is Spain if you ask me (While Italy has the unique nuntio it's a unit a hardly use and also makes normal priests a bit redundant). The idea was not to give them another bonus on top but maybe shift it a bit around with priests become a more prominent element within the Italian gameplay. Also last time I checked statues only had an ability with cooldown but no area-affect. You might have changed that already in your version.

#Elmeti
Well, I always thought the graphics of this unit would have been perfect to use as base for the Polish Winged Hussars. Otherwise I absolutely agree with tweaking them for earlier ages. I thought age-according mercenaries would be NE3 though.

#Moving Dragoon bonus
Well you announced Scots Grey as a new British Church tech, so they would already have special dragoons, while Spain has those strange aventuro (sp?) unit which is also some kind of dragoon if I remember correctly? And HRE already has special access to Black Riders so I would not give them such a bonus. I thought of Italy because they had this special early light cavalry but basically any civ is fine. Well, if there's something to move anyhow. At least the range bonus should be nerfed anyway (but Edeholland will have told you I guess). 20 range for dragoons is simply too much. You once said that Russia could be the only civ with access to both-CA as well as dragoon, so you might give them some boon there.

#Ottoman cavalry
Actually I was thinking much more about the Sipahi than the hussar. Didn't you have a cooperation with this Ottoman-mod which already had Deli-Riders as a unique unit?

#Chevauleger vs. Hussar
I'm glad that the Hussar will finally become the light cavalry he is supposed to be (still keeping the heavy cavalry tag though). I really like that. But with that change in mind I see even more reason to tweak the Chevauleger in the direction I intended. Which is actually not much different except that my imagined Chevauleger fares better against cavalry while being somewhat weaker against skirmishers. They are not supposed to be anti-cavalry. Adding those tech-ideas probably lead to that false conclusion. They would only retain a small bonus against other melee cavalry (say x1,5). If they are only marginally stronger than the normal hussar they could still be beaten if they are slightly outnumbered. Also there is little sense in having two basically same units in the stable. A chevauleger with a small cavalry-bonus could scare off hussars unless they have a big number advantage on their side while unable to force those hussars to battle because of their higher speed. That opens up some rather interesting strategic possibilities.

#Bavarian Chevauleger
Well, Aztecs played on a map that features Bavarians is awkward anyhow. They would still be Bavarian Chevauleger but fighting for another civ. As did many Bavarians which marched to Moscow together with Napoleon. Also Bavarians already have Oktoberfest which is such a time-dependent tech.


#Ranged Hussar Cavalry
Well, I always imagined that the new ranged Liso (sp?) would get those traits. Possible that my memory fails me here, there were so many discussions about the Polish stable. (And I don't want to open up another one)

#Beer
Basically anytime. As long as you told me some time in advance, I would make sure to have time for a beer, or two.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:50 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
#Italians
Well, I see Italy having lots of priests available but for no real purpose. Only current European civ with unique priest-gameplay is Spain if you ask me (While Italy has the unique nuntio it's a unit a hardly use and also makes normal priests a bit redundant). The idea was not to give them another bonus on top but maybe shift it a bit around with priests become a more prominent element within the Italian gameplay. Also last time I checked statues only had an ability with cooldown but no area-affect. You might have changed that already in your version.


We can talk about different boni instead of new, additional ones. An "omni-healing" object would be the Basilica.

Quote:
#Elmeti
Well, I always thought the graphics of this unit would have been perfect to use as base for the Polish Winged Hussars. Otherwise I absolutely agree with tweaking them for earlier ages. I thought age-according mercenaries would be NE3 though.

It doesn't hurt the current concept to start introducing them now already merc by merc. Smile

Quote:
#Moving Dragoon bonus
Well you announced Scots Grey as a new British Church tech, so they would already have special dragoons, while Spain has those strange aventuro (sp?) unit which is also some kind of dragoon if I remember correctly? And HRE already has special access to Black Riders so I would not give them such a bonus. I thought of Italy because they had this special early light cavalry but basically any civ is fine. Well, if there's something to move anyhow. At least the range bonus should be nerfed anyway (but Edeholland will have told you I guess). 20 range for dragoons is simply too much. You once said that Russia could be the only civ with access to both-CA as well as dragoon, so you might give them some boon there.

I planned with delayed goons for a couple of civs, i.e. Russia and Poland. You're a bit outdated here: Scots Greys are Hussar RGs, Aventuros will be/are kicked. Reichsritter are still Black Riders and not Dragoons.

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#Ottoman cavalry
Actually I was thinking much more about the Sipahi than the hussar. Didn't you have a cooperation with this Ottoman-mod which already had Deli-Riders as a unique unit?

Yes, and we're going to use graphics from the mod. However, I don't agree with all design decisions. Making the Sipahi trainable in some way is something I agree with in principle, however, we're talking about standard cavalry here, not elite.

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#Chevauleger vs. Hussar
I'm glad that the Hussar will finally become the light cavalry he is supposed to be (still keeping the heavy cavalry tag though). I really like that. But with that change in mind I see even more reason to tweak the Chevauleger in the direction I intended. Which is actually not much different except that my imagined Chevauleger fares better against cavalry while being somewhat weaker against skirmishers. They are not supposed to be anti-cavalry. Adding those tech-ideas probably lead to that false conclusion. They would only retain a small bonus against other melee cavalry (say x1,5). If they are only marginally stronger than the normal hussar they could still be beaten if they are slightly outnumbered. Also there is little sense in having two basically same units in the stable. A chevauleger with a small cavalry-bonus could scare off hussars unless they have a big number advantage on their side while unable to force those hussars to battle because of their higher speed. That opens up some rather interesting strategic possibilities.

The Chevauleger will not get an anti-cav bonus. Razz I can offer to remove the malus vs. LC or make the stats a bit tougher. Death Head Hussars and Camels will counter cav in melee and that's enough for me actually.

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#Bavarian Chevauleger
Well, Aztecs played on a map that features Bavarians is awkward anyhow. They would still be Bavarian Chevauleger but fighting for another civ. As did many Bavarians which marched to Moscow together with Napoleon. Also Bavarians already have Oktoberfest which is such a time-dependent tech.

Sorry, but no. Razz You also have no idea how annoying that is to code, I refuse.

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#Ranged Hussar Cavalry
Well, I always imagined that the new ranged Liso (sp?) would get those traits. Possible that my memory fails me here, there were so many discussions about the Polish stable. (And I don't want to open up another one)

No, these are not the Liso's stats. ^^
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