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Silmariel
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:49 pm    Post subject:

Alors, with this self-embarassing show of my French skills I welcome you to my set of revolutionary ideas.

As you might guess now my ideas evolve around the revolution options (not solely though). Revolutions are not a common strategy but can be quite fun to pull off. Compared to generic Age of Empires NE's revolution feature a broadend set of shipments already. So what's left is cosmetics such as giving civilizations an appropriate revolting option as South American independence is neither in the geographical nor the historical frame of this game. I do not see need to give each nation two different choices as currently but a single unique one. You can click on any underlined word for background information such as flags or history. I assume that all nations have a standard revolution unit, i.e. colonial militia.
Read my suggestions below.

The second set of ideas comprises new late-game techs. Currently each civilization has one (or more) unique university techs. Some of them are very good, others are rather bland. My idea is to give each civilization a Napoleonic tech (ah, noticed the connection with the mod's title?). Of course I know that the timeline has been much stretched but I think that Nappie's time should still feature prominently in this mod. And that's not done by renaming those unique techs but rather creating techs that have a bigger implication on each civilization's gameplay and (at least try to) display how all those civilizations fared in those history-shaking times (~1789-1815). I've not found appropriate ones for all civs but if the team approves I would appreciate any help. Alas, let's get this started...
Napoleon




Revolution:
-Personality: George Washington
-Country: USA
-Benefits: ?
-Notes: USA already have a special revolution option whereas they can revolt in age V. This could be changed into a more streamlined variant of the revolution.
Napoleonic Tech:
-Benefits: ?
-Old techs: ?
-Notes: -


Revolution:
-Personality: Andreas Hofer
-Country: Tirol
-Benefits: Sends 30 Gebirgsschützen ("Standschützen") and upgrades all natives to imperial/legendary level.
-Notes: The benefit is quite ironical as the Tyrolians were fighting Bavarian in these times. Differance in language and culture is very minor though. This bonus is nearly identical to the generic AoE-revolution-option: Brazil.
Napoleonic tech: Congress of Vienna
-Benefits: Enables a 30-second lasting peacetime or sends the diplomatic hero who has the ability to call a ceasefire for 30 sec.
-Old techs: Bohemian Keep is too bland and could be skipped without loss. Several shipments and politicians increase keep buildlimit. Second one which enables training settlers at keeps could stay but become a normal keep tech (as it already is). It also replaces the already existing shipment Congress of Vienna which sent a diplomatic hero with all non-combat abilities in game in age IV. All of them except the peacetime are worthless at this point of the game (and why a Diplomat should be able to convert treasure guardians is beyond reason).
-Notes: Also refers to the saying 'Bella gerant allii, tu felix austria nube'. Austria was never very fortunate with fighting a war but accumulated a huge empire by their (marrying) politics.


Revolution:
-Personality: James Watt
-Country: Industrial Revolution
-Benefits: Sends 1 or 2 factories. Do not have access to fort shipments but to an factory-replacement shipment and a 2-tower-shipment (so they have a drop-off-point for further shipments)
-Notes: The additional factory/ies partially compensate for the lack of economy after a revolution allowing for a marginally expanded timeframe for your strategy
Napoleonic tech: ?
-Benefits: ?
-Old techs: The replacement factory is already incorporated into their revolution option
-Notes: I could imagine two here, one land- and the other one sea-related



Revolution:
-Personality: Christian Frederick
-Country: Norway
-Benefits: ?
-Notes: Probably shared with Sweden
Napoleonic Tech:
-Benefits: ?
-Old techs: -
-Notes: -


Revolution:
-Personality: ?
-Country: ?
-Benefits: ?
-Notes: Similar to the Americans they should have a special revolution. The French revolution still was one of the most influential happenings in European history
Napoleonic tech: Continental blockade
-Benefits: Enables an early blockade at the expense of hampering your own and your allies' advancement
-Old techs: This is a current available tech. The Grande Armée tech could be incorporated as a shipment while the native-tech should be skipped entirely.



Revolution:
-Personality: Grand Duke Dalberg
-Country: Rheinbund
-Benefits: ?/(Special French units)/Levée en masse
-Notes: The german states supported Napoleon's campaigns with a lot of soldiers which the levee en masse could represent
Napoleonic tech: French Client State (Name pending)
-Benefits: Cheaper Revolution and bigger revolution bonus
-Old techs: The Thirty-Years-War should be incorporated as a homecity shipment while the Krupp-tech is sincerely outdated.
-Notes: In French client states new laws were introduced which lead to more freedom or reduced repression of minorities. Thus the Napoleonic tech for all client states evolves around villager-population and population cap in general.


Revolution:
-Personality: Francesco d'Eril/Napoleon/?
-Country: Italian Republic
-Benefits: ?/(Special French units)/Cheveaulegers ("Cacciatori a Cavallo")
-Notes: -
Napoleonic tech: French Client State (Name pending)
-Benefits: Cheaper Revolution and better revolution benefits
-Old techs: Depending on the layout of new Italy
-Notes:



Revolution:
-Personality: Jan Schimmelpenninck/Napoleon/?
-Country: Batavian Republic
-Benefits: ?/(Special French units)/x Swashbucklers ("Patriotten")
-Notes: -
Napoleonic tech: French Client State (Name pending)
-Benefits: Cheaper revolution and better revolution benefits
-Old techs: As both techs increase bank gather rate they could be consolidated into a single homecity-shipment
-Notes: -



Revolution:
-Personality: -
-Country: -
-Benefits: -
-Notes: -
Napoleonic tech: New Order
-Benefits: Turns all your settlers into Nizam-i-Cedid (or any other revolutionary unit)
-Old techs: Both (one boosting infantry, the other one artilleries' siege damage) are not really necessary or should be consolidated into homecity-shipments
-Notes: as the Ottoman Empire did not have any notable revolution I know of but could still have the ability to turn all settler's into military this is the way to go. Settler production is not barred though and continues, therefor they have a slight advantage and the possibility to recover. It's similar to the Indian 'Sepoy Resistance' shipment.


Revolution:
-Personality: -
-Country: -
-Benefits: -
-Notes: -
Napoleonic tech: European Instructors
-Benefits: Sends a mix of european units (commanders, spies, sharpshooters, cheveaulegers)
-Old techs: -
-Notes: -


Revolution:
-Personality: Friedrich August I./Józef Poniatowski/Napoleon/?
-Country: Duchy of Warsaw
-Benefits: Sends 13 Imperial Uhlans
-Notes: This bonus is nearly identical to the generic AoE-revolution-option: Chile.
Napoleonic tech: Veterans of the Polish Legions
-Benefits: Drastically increases Uhlans hitpoints (50%?) and enables them in the stable (maybe split into two techs, to avoid abuse with the Imperial Uhlans from revolution)
-Old techs: Pancerni tech could be shifted to the homecity easily if they are still part of the Polish unit roster.With the rework of howdolany into folwark they should support 10 gatherers.
-Notes: Uhlans are one of the most iconic Polish units right next (or even above) Winged Hussars. They deserve to be featured in such a prominent role and should make up the bulk of Polish late-game-cavalry. All other European lancer units where fashioned after the Polish Uhlans.


Revolution:
-Personality: Lützow
-Country: Befreiungskrieg
-Benefits: Sends 30 Black Brunswicker ("Schwarze Jäger") and upgrades all natives to imperial/legendary level/or Increases revolutionary units' combat abilities
-Notes: Even though Lützow's Freikorps was militarily completly unimportant it was inspirational with a lot of intellectuals and artists fighting within it's ranks. It also introduced the colours Schwarz-Rot-Gold (black-red-gold) which would become a symbol of german unification and eventually the flag of modern-day Germany which should therefor be the flag of this revolution option. The boni are nearly identical to the generic AoE-revolution-options: Brazil and Haiti.
Napoleonic tech: Iron Cross
-Benefits: Prussian units autoheal themselves.
-Old techs: This is an already existing tech but is a bit tweaked. Currently Prussian units autoheal themselves from age I on which I deem to strong. Thus this tech enables it in later ages where it's not that gamebreaking. Prussians already have enough bonus with their strong villagers, extra military-wagon on age-up and free spawning military units. The other tech (Rapid Mobilization) is somewhat outdated and more referring to the wars against Austria-Hungary and France in 1866 and 1870/1871. It's bonus could replace the current one of the General Staff-shipment which is a bit too strong.
-Notes: The Iron Cross is one of the best known symbols of German military prowess and was first issued in the Befreiungskriege (Wars of Liberation) against Napoleon.


Revolution:
-Personality: Maria the Mad/João VI
-Country: Brazil
-Benefits: Sends 20(?) Slaves
-Notes: The slaves partially compensate for the lack of economy after a revolution allowing for a marginally expanded timeframe for your strategy
Napoleonic tech: Lines of Torres Vedras
-Benefits: Fortification buildings are created more quickly
-Old techs: The slave shipment is already incorporated into their revolution option. The other one is too bland and could be skipped without loss.
-Notes: This basically shifts the outdated Russian Sevastopol-tech to Portugal which-as a defensive civ-can put it into good use.


Revolution:
-Personality: ?
-Country: ?
-Benefits: Each mill and plantation spawns 5 additional revolution units.
-Notes: Refers to the formation of the Narodnoe Opolchenyie
Napoleonic tech: Scorched Earth
-Benefits: Blockhouses slow enemy units' movement (could be expanded to all Russian (fortification) buildings
-Old techs: This is a current one. With the rework of Russia as a civilization of quality units the population increase will not be necessary anymore.
-Notes: -



Revolution:
-Personality: ?
-Country: Junta
-Benefits: All your revolution units have a tiny trickle of food
-Notes: This trickle partially compensate for the lack of economy after a revolution allowing for a marginally expanded timeframe for your strategy
Napoleonic tech: Guerilla Warfare
-Benefits: All your military units get the stealth ability
-Old techs: Both could be skipped with little loss. Spain has already faster shipments but very bad ones so increasing this ability is not a good bonus. If Inquisitors are to be incorporated into the Spanish civ this should be done via shipments.
-Notes: Refers to the Spanish guerilla activities during the Peninsular War. I could still imagine and additional sea-related tech centered around the Santissima Trinidad


Revolution:
-Personality: Laharpe/Peter Ochs/Napoleon/?
-Country: Helvetian Republic
-Benefits: ?/(Special French units)/Sharpshooters
-Notes: -
Napoleonic tech: French Client State (Name pending)
-Benefits: Cheaper revolution and better revolution benefits
-Old techs: Mountains terrain could be skipped also because it's identical to the Russian Scorched Earth. The Neutrality tech is very cool and could be shifted to the homecity and replace the follower-combat-shipment (they are too strong already, boosting them is pointless)
-Notes: see HRE


Revolution:
-Personality: ?
-Country: ?
-Benefits: ?
-Notes: I hope SAOL can shed some light on this
Napoleonic Tech:
-Benefits: ?
-Old techs: Transforming villagers into conscripts becomes unnecessary with an appropriate revolution choice. Could be kept though, if no proper revolution can be found.
-Notes: see above

Edit: Ah, did turn out to be a longer read. I hope the team finds at least a single useful idea with it.
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gandalfDK
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Joined: 26 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:22 am    Post subject:

Revolution:
-Personality: Jan Schimmelpenninck/Napoleon/?
-Country: Batavian Republic
-Benefits: ?/(Special French units)
-Notes: -
Napoleonic tech: French Client State
-Benefits: Increases the amount of villagers you can train by 10 (?)
-Old techs: As both techs increase bank gather rate they could be consolidated into a single homecity-shipment
-Notes: see HRE; this is to increase the notoriously bad late-game economy of the Dutch


I myself am from the Netherlands. So, I would like to discuss this one a bit. In game the Dutch civ is represented by Maurice of Nassau. He was the 'stadhouder' of the biggest provinces of the Republic, a stadhouder was the person with the most power during war times, and so he is a good choice for a leader. During his 'reign', as far as 1 person has the power in a democracy, he had a great friend who became his worst enemy. Johan van Oldenbarneveldt. This guy gained power in times of peace. Note that the Dutch are just recovering from the Eight Years War with the Spanish and are finally at peace. Maurice had Johan decapitated and thus gained more power. Then of course came the French Revolution which effected the Netherlands and they became the Bataafse Republiek. But this was actually a more forced thing from Napoleon himself later on.
So, with the Dutch, I would suggest a more 'what if'-scenario. Johan van Oldebarneveldt would be a good personality then, for he was also 'raadspensionaris', some sort of minister of Finances and Foreign Policies in one seat. This would go well with certain economic upgrades and you could maybe add something which benefits allies.
Or you could go a different direction with the revolution thought and get to the time when the Netherlands become a constitutional monarchy, through Johan Thorbecke. A political revolution against the seated power of the Oranges.
Maybe we could even just go back in history and add William of Orange/Nassau in. Smile

So I would like this:

Revolution:
-Personality: Johan van Oldebarneveldt/Johan Thorbecke/ William of Orange'Nassau
-Country: Batavian Republic / United Kingdom of the Netherlands
-Benefits: Economic boost / Unique units like the Geus (hopefully that one doesn't get removed) or something with the Dutch expansion, so VOC ships, East Indies Fregate. Units from Indonesia, Suriname etc? Neerlansche Musketier, Bataafse Patriot, idk

-Notes: Well, Dutch history doesn't feature any exactly cool revolutions and inspiration for other unique units is hard.

Napoleonic tech: The Gouden Eeuw
-Benefits: Ships "Rembrandt", a unit who can 'paint' Banks, so they gain an increased gathering rate. Also ships 3 Nieuw Amsterdammers, improved settlers.

Napoleonic tech: Slave trade
-Benefits: Provides the Dutch with 15 slaves and increases the gathering rate on mills and decreases ship building time.

Sorry for this long rant, hope I didn't mess up your thread.
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Silmariel
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Joined: 12 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:58 am    Post subject:

gandalfDK wrote:

Sorry for this long rant, hope I didn't mess up your thread.


It does not. Of course everyone is free to suggest their own improvements and whatsoever simply because this thread is a mere suggestion itself.

Quote:
Revolution:
-Personality: Johan van Oldebarneveldt/Johan Thorbecke/ William of Orange'Nassau
-Country: Batavian Republic / United Kingdom of the Netherlands
-Benefits: Economic boost / Unique units like the Geus (hopefully that one doesn't get removed) or something with the Dutch expansion, so VOC ships, East Indies Fregate. Units from Indonesia, Suriname etc? Neerlansche Musketier, Bataafse Patriot, idk


I decided only to give each country a single revolution option because it's of little difference which revolution-personality you choose. As most countries did not have any notable revolutions I went with the "Republic"-option for most of the French client states (those are: Dutch, Italy, Germany, Swiss and Poland). Those were indeed forced by Napoleon. Hence I suggested French troops as they revolutionary benefit although they could be replaced with anything that fits better. As the creation of the Batavian is closely aligned with the dispute between Orangists and Patrioten about the state's constitution as far as I know Dutch history a special Patriot unit (renamed Swashbuckler?) could fit. I do not know much about them though so if you could shed any light on this issue I would appreciate that.
Edit: A quick research brought up this term: Exercitiegenootschap. That could somehow be made to fit in.

Anyhow, economic boost does of course make no sense with revolution. Others involve the creation of new units which I cannot provide and would mean extra-work for the team and thus are an option I'd rather not consider.

Quote:

Napoleonic tech: The Gouden Eeuw
-Benefits: Ships "Rembrandt", a unit who can 'paint' Banks, so they gain an increased gathering rate. Also ships 3 Nieuw Amsterdammers, improved settlers.

Napoleonic tech: Slave trade
-Benefits: Provides the Dutch with 15 slaves and increases the gathering rate on mills and decreases ship building time.

Obviously none of these two is particularly associated with the Napoleonic times thus unfit as Napoleonic techs (see the second paragraph I wrote in the introduction).
While this Rembrandt-idea is surely creative it has a flaw-a new unit and new coding is involved which I cannot provide. The Slave trade-bonus we already have with Portugal so it does not fit either. I do not know about the Dutch fleet in Napoleonic times but since they are a seafaring nation I could imagine giving them a second sea-related bonus as most other civilizations with strong navy could get.
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gandalfDK
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Joined: 26 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:26 pm    Post subject:

Ah, yes, sorry, I forget the specific time era that would be used for the tech.

I will have my own look iinto the Exercitie.

The techs are indeed not right then and the Rembrandt would indeed cause a lot of work we can't provide ourselves right of the bat.
Yes, but the seafaring really made an improvemnt after Napoleon was gone. Therefore maybe a renamed or a bit remoddeld Swashbuckler would be sufficient I guess. Or Stadhouder.
French Satelite State or what have you would do best I guess. I would also stick to only providing 1 option per civ and no more.
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SAOL
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:18 pm    Post subject:

Silmariel wrote:
My idea is to give each civilization a Napoleonic tech (ah, noticed the connection with the mod's title?). Of course I know that the timeline has been much stretched but I think that Nappie's time should still feature prominently in this mod. And that's not done by renaming those unique techs but rather creating techs that have a bigger implication on each civilization's gameplay and (at least try to) display how all those civilizations fared in those history-shaking times (~1789-1815).
Personally I feel the exact timeframe for a unique technology is less important than the interesting-ness of the technology, because let's face it: All of the civilizations had their ups and downs, and all of them are the most exciting at different timeframes. Therefore, I don't think it matters much if the most exciting and interesting unique technology one could find is older. After all, the players make their own history in a way.

Quote:
I hope SAOL can shed some light on this
There aren't that many interesting uprisings to spring from... The one that best fits a public uprising, has an identifiable leader, and fits the timeline was actually more (in a way, at least) about giving the king some more power. It was beaten down, however.

The other potential candidate is the coup d'état of 1809, which ultimately lead to the Bernadotte family ascending the throne of Sweden (though they weren't involved in the coup, that was mostly a group of noblemen). Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte is the only one of Napoleon and his marshals whose family still is any comparable position.
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Silmariel
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:57 pm    Post subject:

SAOL wrote:
Personally I feel the exact timeframe for a unique technology is less important than the interesting-ness of the technology, because let's face it: All of the civilizations had their ups and downs, and all of them are the most exciting at different timeframes. Therefore, I don't think it matters much if the most exciting and interesting unique technology one could find is older. After all, the players make their own history in a way.


This is true indeed. But do not forget that we already have various means of adding unique improvements to a civ. Those are: civ-boni, unique church techs and of course homecityshipments. My idea was basically to let the techs gravitate around a certain idea and that is the timeframe that lends this mod it's name. I tried to keep all the techs that are highly unique in some fashion after all. Also: people's opinion about what's the most exciting part of history of civilzations featured in this mode is (highly) diverse I guess. But several boni seem rather bland to me included only for the sake of having unique technologies for everyone. One might argue that this is the case for my idea as well insofar as I didn't even find unique ones for everybody so far. But at least my idea evolves about a central, inspiring topic. So if anybody has any particular ideas I'd be glad to discuss them. And who knows, maybe some of them could be realized some day?

Quote:
The other potential candidate is the coup d'état of 1809, which ultimately lead to the Bernadotte family ascending the throne of Sweden (though they weren't involved in the coup, that was mostly a group of noblemen). Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte is the only one of Napoleon and his marshals whose family still is any comparable position.

This would be pretty perfect from my point of view (timelinewise). As there seems to be little fighting involved I'm a bit unsure about how to implement it though. If you have any particular idea I'd be glad to fill the blanks in the description of the Swedish. The only other piece of history I know from this area is that Sweden seized Norway somewhere around 1814 if I'm right. So maybe Norway (Ski troopers anyone?Devil) could be a revolution option?
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SAOL
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:40 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
This would be pretty perfect from my point of view (timelinewise).
I'd imagined you would say that Razz As with the other rebellion though, I think it's a bit difficult to craft it into something that doesn't feel half arsed, even after some thought.

Quote:
Sweden seized Norway somewhere around 1814 if I'm right. So maybe Norway
Since, as you say, Sweden conquered Norway, wouldn't it be a bit wrong way around to have it as a revolution option? Besides, that was after this coup. Everyone obviously wanted the newly elected crown prince to re-take the eastern half of the realm, Finland, but he decided to take Norway instead.

Oh yes, those ski troopers. Memories...



Quote:
One might argue that this is the case for my idea as well insofar as I didn't even find unique ones for everybody so far. But at least my idea evolves about a central, inspiring topic. So if anybody has any particular ideas I'd be glad to discuss them. And who knows, maybe some of them could be realized some day?
Yes, I suppose we just disagree on what's a suitable 'theme' to pick out those unique technology. My feeling is simply that picking a narrow timeframe for finding those unique technologies limits the possibilities in an unnecessary way with little actual gain.
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Silmariel
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:37 am    Post subject:

About Norway:In my opinion one could argue as Norway had already been awarded to Sweden with the treaty of Kiel if i'm correct that any call to arms against Sweden equals a revolution of a part of Sweden against another. English wikipedia supports this by calling it "insurrection". Anyhow, I'll add it as the Danish revolution option (which i completly forgot about along with Persia) later on when I get back ome to my laptop. I still could imagine it being a shared one between Denmark and Sweden though.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:47 pm    Post subject:

Perhaps.

The most likely revolution option for most European nations, on European maps, would however be the same. Sweden would revolt into Sweden, France into France, Poland into Poland and so on. It doesn't make much sense that Denmark or Sweden should have Norway as a revolution option if you are playing a game on NE Alps, or Rhine, or Malta. The most realistic thing would be a scenario (or explanation model) where the actual revolution took place on the "home turf", leading to a change of management. Not an entirely different state.

As originally envisioned the revolutions of course depicted colonies breaking away from their founders, as colonization was the games premise. That simply doesn't make sense in a European setting.
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Silmariel
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:24 pm    Post subject:

Care for some necrophilia? lol (anyone guessing the quote without resorting to google and it's friends gets a virtual pat on the shoulder)

While it's certainly my intention to give those ideas I posted here some time ago a second time to be considered my main intention is to avoid hijacking another thread to report some findings and thoughts which I had while I played NE over the last few days. I played against AI as well as against human players on ESO of a broad skill range.

1. Streamlined Upgrades
Currently the various unit-upgrade-shipments have various effects. I mean, of course, they boost unit-statistics. But they affect different units. There are those that affect for example all melee-infantry-units including mercenaries, natives and bandits. Other civs have access to boosts solely to their units which makes their support units distinctively weaker. A strange case is Poland where the generic 15% bonus is split to 10% for all cavalry units and 5% for polish cavalry units only. Also some icons are misleading (Poland as an example again: the cavalry combat-shipment shows the icon of a melee-cavalry-combat-shipment). Would be great if we could have a clear solution here.

2. Less livestock
A great number of NE's maps has herdables such as cows, goats and sheep. While it's nice to have them on some maps I've the feeling that it has been overdone a bit. Livestock can boost your economy considerably if you have proper homecity-shipments available. Also the quantity is massive on some maps. One can easily gather as much as 20 to 30 livestock on a small 1vs1 map. There a very few maps in the original game with livestock and those are very rare, making it something special and enabling certain strategies that are not possibly otherwise. I'd be glad if we had fewer livestock-maps in the future.

3. Price
Certain prices have been changed (tc+200 wood, veteran upgrades -50wood/coin). I wonder if there's any good reason behind that? It's simply confusing to have such a change.

4. A few bugs
Maybe they have been reported already anyway-in case not I'm doing that now:
-Bavarian Natives: Jagdstutzen does not provide additional range but only additional range of sight.
-Skirmishing units tagged wrongly: the light-infantry tag refers to cavalry units without horse such as coyote runners or chinese disciples. It's not a fitting tag for Grenzer and Gebirgsschütze (also the Gebirgsschütze has a wrong bonus against light infantry). Possible that more units are affected.
-Special Saloon technologies such as Drinkin', Whorin', Gamblin' etc don't seem to have any effect
-Team-shipment skirmishing-unit-hitpoints (Austria) has a wrong description in which only the hp-boost for Grenzer is mentioned
-Food Silos shipment is in the wrong age for Americans (should be I)
-HRE received some new shipments with the last update (Reichsritter, Kreisarmeen from Austria and Brandenburg) but I still cannot add them to any deck. I can activate/unlock them but when I want to add them to my deck they are reset to locked.

5. Minor Suggestions (mainly concerning Germany)
-Earlier access to Garde du Corps(Guard Cavalry) with tweaked stats (no more boni, simply a high base attack with area of effect, keeping the high-melee resistance), getting stronger with every age-up, similar to the Sipahi. Maybe also made available through shipments?
-No more free units with every shipment. Having doppelsöldner with every shipment makes Germany nearly unraidable. Besides this mechanical point-of-view it also does not fit the civ's theme: extra units is something for a militaristic state such as Prussia but not a complex bureaucratic structure of various states which often enough had difficulties to bring enough units to the battlefield in time. I'd rather see this bonus transferred to an aggressive civ with cheap cavalry. Maybe Poland, Persia(?) or if Denmark gets Uhlans as announced earlier it could also be appropriate for them (this would be the easiest way to balance-as one could simply use all the ancient German shipments). Maybe a free crate instead?
-I think Austria's static age-up-system would be better fitting for HRE (but keeping the normal food/coin-age-up) as the most powerful politicians always occupied the same position (i.e. Kurfürsten)
-There's a HRE-unique-church tech that removes the coin cost of all mercenary-shipments. While the idea is nice it's hardly obtainable for 4000 coin (and the shipment cost). If that could be rebalanced somehow that would be great.
-What about making the "Black Rider" mercenary into Pappenheimer cavalry? I know Tilanus played with changing the name once and they really look familiar. I saw some suits of armor of the Pappenheimer cavalry in the Army museum in Dresden this summer and they instantly reminded me of this unit. That's only a very minor cosmetic issue though.


6. Suggestions: Austria
Bonus-rework for Austria: While Austria features nice units and unique structures they do not work really well together. Currently their focus is: mercenaries, natives, defensive structures and wood instead of food. Thus they have the inhabers card which makes all their infantry and cavalry cost food/wood instead of food/coin. I'd rather see this card with the Dutch, making their units even coin-heavier but cheaper on food. While I like how Austria depends on the "archaic" resources of food and wood and hard-working and oppressed peasants I'd like this expanded on mercenaries or even artillery while removing the artificial wood-focus created by their age-up costing food and wood. Also wood is slow to be gathered but also sparse on certain maps.
Something completely different: Once upon a time there was a RG for the line-infantry planned ("Deytscher"). I think a RG for the skirmisher displaying the Tyrolean culture would be more appropriate, even more as line infantry is already a unique unit.

7. Balancing
I've mentioned several balancing issues above already still there are a few left:
-nerf for swedish leather canons. they are so easy mass and strong against nearly everything also because they fire so quickly
-no instant cavalry for Austria if explorer can train hussars
-increased cost for the arabian upheavel tech of the Pirate natives is needed. Much too strong currently. Maybe also sending a bigger force after time (i.e. 1 corsair+1 tuareg+1fellah for every 3 minutes)
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Tilanus Commodor
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Joined: 03 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:07 pm    Post subject:

Silmariel wrote:
Care for some necrophilia? lol (anyone guessing the quote without resorting to google and it's friends gets a virtual pat on the shoulder)

Yes, please! (dunno the reference though) Devil

Quote:
While it's certainly my intention to give those ideas I posted here some time ago a second time to be considered

What can I say, your post was perfectly timed with our internal processes. Mr. Green And I gotta admit SAOL's loud thinking matches our current plans surprisingly well (at least to a certain degree).

Quote:
1. Streamlined Upgrades
Currently the various unit-upgrade-shipments have various effects. I mean, of course, they boost unit-statistics. But they affect different units. There are those that affect for example all melee-infantry-units including mercenaries, natives and bandits. Other civs have access to boosts solely to their units which makes their support units distinctively weaker. A strange case is Poland where the generic 15% bonus is split to 10% for all cavalry units and 5% for polish cavalry units only. Also some icons are misleading (Poland as an example again: the cavalry combat-shipment shows the icon of a melee-cavalry-combat-shipment). Would be great if we could have a clear solution here.

And what exactly is your proposal?

Quote:
2. Less livestock
A great number of NE's maps has herdables such as cows, goats and sheep. While it's nice to have them on some maps I've the feeling that it has been overdone a bit. Livestock can boost your economy considerably if you have proper homecity-shipments available. Also the quantity is massive on some maps. One can easily gather as much as 20 to 30 livestock on a small 1vs1 map. There a very few maps in the original game with livestock and those are very rare, making it something special and enabling certain strategies that are not possibly otherwise. I'd be glad if we had fewer livestock-maps in the future.

I agree that is can easily cause imba ecos, even though it stresses the importance of early map control. I assume you refer to maps like Alps, Alpine Pass, etc.? These come to my mind first, but a complete list would be great. Do you mind making it? Mr. Green

Quote:
3. Price
Certain prices have been changed (tc+200 wood, veteran upgrades -50wood/coin). I wonder if there's any good reason behind that? It's simply confusing to have such a change.

I don't recall these changes right now, my brain is full with other stuff. When were these changes made and for which civs/units?

Quote:
4. A few bugs
Maybe they have been reported already anyway-in case not I'm doing that now:
-Bavarian Natives: Jagdstutzen does not provide additional range but only additional range of sight.
-Skirmishing units tagged wrongly: the light-infantry tag refers to cavalry units without horse such as coyote runners or chinese disciples. It's not a fitting tag for Grenzer and Gebirgsschütze (also the Gebirgsschütze has a wrong bonus against light infantry). Possible that more units are affected.
-Special Saloon technologies such as Drinkin', Whorin', Gamblin' etc don't seem to have any effect
-Team-shipment skirmishing-unit-hitpoints (Austria) has a wrong description in which only the hp-boost for Grenzer is mentioned
-Food Silos shipment is in the wrong age for Americans (should be I)
-HRE received some new shipments with the last update (Reichsritter, Kreisarmeen from Austria and Brandenburg) but I still cannot add them to any deck. I can activate/unlock them but when I want to add them to my deck they are reset to locked.

I'll look into these. Please don't hesitate to push these things if they're not dealt with in the next version. Those would be things I wanna patch. As for adding new cards to decks, have you tried making new decks?

Quote:
5. Minor Suggestions (mainly concerning Germany)
-Earlier access to Garde du Corps(Guard Cavalry) with tweaked stats (no more boni, simply a high base attack with area of effect, keeping the high-melee resistance), getting stronger with every age-up, similar to the Sipahi. Maybe also made available through shipments?
-No more free units with every shipment. Having doppelsöldner with every shipment makes Germany nearly unraidable. Besides this mechanical point-of-view it also does not fit the civ's theme: extra units is something for a militaristic state such as Prussia but not a complex bureaucratic structure of various states which often enough had difficulties to bring enough units to the battlefield in time. I'd rather see this bonus transferred to an aggressive civ with cheap cavalry. Maybe Poland, Persia(?) or if Denmark gets Uhlans as announced earlier it could also be appropriate for them (this would be the easiest way to balance-as one could simply use all the ancient German shipments). Maybe a free crate instead?
-I think Austria's static age-up-system would be better fitting for HRE (but keeping the normal food/coin-age-up) as the most powerful politicians always occupied the same position (i.e. Kurfürsten)
-There's a HRE-unique-church tech that removes the coin cost of all mercenary-shipments. While the idea is nice it's hardly obtainable for 4000 coin (and the shipment cost). If that could be rebalanced somehow that would be great.
-What about making the "Black Rider" mercenary into Pappenheimer cavalry? I know Tilanus played with changing the name once and they really look familiar. I saw some suits of armor of the Pappenheimer cavalry in the Army museum in Dresden this summer and they instantly reminded me of this unit. That's only a very minor cosmetic issue though.

  • Earlier GdC: No, it's an elite unit like the Chevauxleger or Swashbuckler.
  • Free units @HRE: I agree it'd probably fit better to other civs (like Prussia as you mentioned), even though I don't think it's utterly wrong for the HRE either. I'd only object to Doppelsöldner being shipped, which are too strong. As far as I'm concerned Germany needs a bonus like that in AoE3 and it's a thing that certainly adds to the play appeal of the civ. I don't really think it's OP by itself, but I assume there might occur some imba synergy effects within NE that I don't know about yet. To be honest, I feel like I have sketched a milliard plans already for the AoE3/NE Germans to finally nail that certain mix of history and playability (within the rules of AoE3/NE - which is the hardest part). I'd be fine to discuss them here later on a broader scale if you like.
  • I'll note your suggestion regarding the switch of Austrian and HRE politicians. However, I can already say it has a low priority, since both civs are meant to be balanced with them (if that really is the case is another question) and a switch would require new graphics and freeing and then reimplementing code references to politicians.
  • Since I've already introduced the Reichsritter my former plan to make basically the same effect, just with Pappenheim cuirassiers, got a big question mark added to it. In principle it would be an easy thing to change the name of a unit to Pappenheimer just for a certain civ. It just got kinda complex with the Germans having Reichsritter. ^^


Quote:
6. Suggestions: Austria
Bonus-rework for Austria: While Austria features nice units and unique structures they do not work really well together. Currently their focus is: mercenaries, natives, defensive structures and wood instead of food. Thus they have the inhabers card which makes all their infantry and cavalry cost food/wood instead of food/coin. I'd rather see this card with the Dutch, making their units even coin-heavier but cheaper on food. While I like how Austria depends on the "archaic" resources of food and wood and hard-working and oppressed peasants I'd like this expanded on mercenaries or even artillery while removing the artificial wood-focus created by their age-up costing food and wood. Also wood is slow to be gathered but also sparse on certain maps.
Something completely different: Once upon a time there was a RG for the line-infantry planned ("Deytscher"). I think a RG for the skirmisher displaying the Tyrolean culture would be more appropriate, even more as line infantry is already a unique unit.

I admit I never quite got the idea behind Austrian stuff costing wood rather than food. Thus I assume it's just a mere incentive to make it stand out mechanically. But "moving" (sounds so easy, eh) that system to Dutch, bleh. ^^
As for the Deytscher, I currently consider to rename the Line Infantry to that, since Line Infantry is just too generic for a unique unit and too unspecific for Austrians in particular. It'd much rather suit as a name for any generic Musketeer upgrade (as possible in the AoE2 nomenclature, which I really like) or an unique French musketeer.
I have plans to introduce more Austrian marksmen, but not gonna reveal yet how. Devil

Quote:
7. Balancing
I've mentioned several balancing issues above already still there are a few left:
-nerf for swedish leather canons. they are so easy mass and strong against nearly everything also because they fire so quickly
-no instant cavalry for Austria if explorer can train hussars
-increased cost for the arabian upheavel tech of the Pirate natives is needed. Much too strong currently. Maybe also sending a bigger force after time (i.e. 1 corsair+1 tuareg+1fellah for every 3 minutes)

I had noted the first 2 points already and they'll be addressed with the next version. Gonna check the Barbary Pirate techs. Smile
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Silmariel
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Joined: 12 Feb 2010
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Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:44 pm    Post subject:

Tilanus Commodor wrote:

Yes, please! (dunno the reference though) Devil


It's actually from Terry Gilliam's Brazil which I watched recently. Good film btw.

Quote:

And what exactly is your proposal?

I think you misunderstood a bit. It's of course clear that every nation has upgrades for different units. But certain civs' upgrades also affect bandits, mercenaries, churchtech units and natives, while others don't. And as a special case: Poland's upgrades for cavalry PARTIALLY affect bandits, natives and mercenaries. I'd like to have it streamlined. So decision is basically: do we want to strengthen generic units compared with bandits/mercenaries/churchtechunits/natives, yes or no.
I'll give you a case to make it more clear:
GERMAN Cavalry Combat: +15% attack and hp for hussar and warwagon
DUTCH Cavalry Combat: +15% attack and hp for cavalry (so all units with the cavalry tag are subject to this bonus)
POLISH Cavalry Combat: +10% attack and hp cavalry; +5% (on top) for Hussar, Pancerni, Liso, Dragoon, Szlachta etc (all cavalry unit's Poland has in the stable)

So if compare units now:
Dutch Hussar=Polish Hussar=German Hussar BUT
Dutch mameluke>Polish mameluke>German mameluke AND
Dutch [insert any cavalry native unit here]>...
That's not really fair, is it?

On a personal note: I'd in fact prefer the polish version. While generic units get more advantage out of such a boost, the gap in combat prowess is only marginally reduced, keeping mercenaries worthwile.

Tilanus Commodor wrote:

I agree that is can easily cause imba ecos, even though it stresses the importance of early map control. I assume you refer to maps like Alps, Alpine Pass, etc.? These come to my mind first, but a complete list would be great. Do you mind making it? Mr. Green


Here is your list. If not mentioned otherwise the number of livestock exceeded 6 pairs which I deem too much for 2 players. Best thing is <6 pairs in my opinion. In fact it seems like pretty much any NE-map has livestock. It's like a 4:1 ratio (livestock:no livestock).

    Alpine Pass (cows)
    Alps (cows)
    America Random(sheep)(random, so might be different)
    Atlas Mountains(goats, 6 pairs)
    Barbary Coast(sheep, 6 pairs)
    Blackforest(sheep, 6 pairs)
    Finland (cows, <6 pairs)
    Lake Baikal (yak)
    [Large] Sahara (goat)
    Mesopotamia (goat, <6 pairs)
    Nile Delta(goat, <6 pairs)
    Nile Flood(goat, <6 pairs)
    Nile River(goat)
    Rhine(cows)
    Shangra-La(cows)<=>Shangri-La
    Sinai(goat, <6 pairs)
    Syrian Desert(sheep)
    Ural(goat, 6 pairs)


While checking those things I noticed some more things:
-Tuareg's tech "Pastoralism" shows a goat as icon but sheeps ship.
-There is a map called "Vinland" that seems much more like Greenland. Maybe rename it so there is not confusion with the Finland map?
-Russian policemen really dont fit to the Polish homecity
-Shangra-La and Shangri-La are the same maps. Maybe remove one?
-review the countless desert maps regarding diversity. I know it would be dumb to cut out an existing random map, but there are so many similar maps, also with always the same natives. I would not mind having less congruent maps.
-also their are countless problems with not-matching terrain-paterns/treasures/treasure guardians but you know about that. By the way: what about a re-skinned coyote/wolf as hyena to guard treasures in deserts?


Quote:

I don't recall these changes right now, my brain is full with other stuff. When were these changes made and for which civs/units?


I dont know when those things were changed but they are simply illogical and not coherent with TAD. Towncenter normally costs 600 wood (with NE 800) and the veteran upgrades (200 wood/coin; while they cost 50/50 for Sweden which is awkward)

Quote:
I'll look into these. Please don't hesitate to push these things if they're not dealt with in the next version. Those would be things I wanna patch. As for adding new cards to decks, have you tried making new decks?


New decks, new homecities, everything. As soon as I start playing, I've only 22(or any number below 25) shipments in my deck. And you can be assured that I'll stress any issues with any further release. Wink

Quote:
  • Earlier GdC: No, it's an elite unit like the Chevauxleger or Swashbuckler.
  • Free units @HRE: I agree it'd probably fit better to other civs (like Prussia as you mentioned), even though I don't think it's utterly wrong for the HRE either. I'd only object to Doppelsöldner being shipped, which are too strong. As far as I'm concerned Germany needs a bonus like that in AoE3 and it's a thing that certainly adds to the play appeal of the civ. I don't really think it's OP by itself, but I assume there might occur some imba synergy effects within NE that I don't know about yet. To be honest, I feel like I have sketched a milliard plans already for the AoE3/NE Germans to finally nail that certain mix of history and playability (within the rules of AoE3/NE - which is the hardest part). I'd be fine to discuss them here later on a broader scale if you like.
  • I'll note your suggestion regarding the switch of Austrian and HRE politicians. However, I can already say it has a low priority, since both civs are meant to be balanced with them (if that really is the case is another question) and a switch would require new graphics and freeing and then reimplementing code references to politicians.
  • Since I've already introduced the Reichsritter my former plan to make basically the same effect, just with Pappenheim cuirassiers, got a big question mark added to it. In principle it would be an easy thing to change the name of a unit to Pappenheimer just for a certain civ. It just got kinda complex with the Germans having Reichsritter. ^^


Elite units: I'm highly sceptical about those lategame so called elite-units and rather wished they were not in the game. Or at least not in this form. Levee-en-masse and swashbucklers are actually cool units with a nice concept. But Cheveauleger is not the unit the name suggest and much too strong and the sharpshooter is simply stupid to handle in a larger scale battle where you cannot use their crackshot as often as one would want. Also I think it's a pity to have a unit in game which hardly sees the light of day as most games end before ever reaching age IV (currently many NE games do, because everybody wants to try/see/showcase the new stuff but if it's used more regular it's simply a waste of texture and unit concept in my opinion. So rather make all of their stats age-dependent an available from early on).

Free units: Prussia already has access to additional uhlans/shipment. They need to waste a shipment on that though (Uhlan officers it's called I think). They also have the possibility to get schützen with every shipment. Each military building units suits them much better and adding any more free units would be even more unfair. Prussians are already much too strong hence I suggested in the first proposal in this thread:

Silmariel wrote:
Currently Prussian units autoheal themselves from age I on which I deem to strong. Thus this tech enables it in later ages where it's not that gamebreaking.


With Prussians you can raid really hard with your 2 uhlans you get for free when building a stable with the military travois you get for free with age up. If you bring both home with only a single hp left, they will be fully healed up when the enemy charges (if he can after one has killed many settlers most likely). I would really give this bonus only to a civ where cavalry is an absolute important part of the army and a weak cavalry for raiding purposes is available, thus I suggested Persia and Poland which both are supposed to be cav-heavy civ. About Denmark I only know that they are gonna have good naval boni but we haven't heard any real news about their play on land but if they get uhlans they could inherit this bonus from the Germans if you struggle to find something for them.

If you really want to keep it for the Germans I cannot hinder you of course but I think it would be better for a different civ. Also you are right, it's not really op to send doppelsöldner but it gives Germans a good raid protection and it's always stupid if you can protect you so easy with a certain civ. And of course it does not fit the theme. And the only unit that I deem would fit to send is the GdC-which again you dont like at earlier ages.

Politicians: Well, Austria could get the generic politicians which are already in the game, so one would only need 4/5 different pics representing the different Kurfürstentümer (almost spelled it with 3 "ü's" Wink) either via flag or banner rather then a certain politician. Also, considering the suggestions mentioned below, I think it would be a good thing to reconsider the way Austria is represented as a civ thus also altering it's political system. But I don't really have a clue how much work is involved here so I don't bother too much.

Pappenheimer: I was rather hinting at renaming the Black Rider (which is kind of a stupid name for a unit) leaving the Reichsritter in place. Even though I of course read Goethe's Götz quite some time ago (and liking it), I cannot really place Reichsritter in timeline. So I don't really know if it's fitting to have Reichsritter in age III.

If you don't mind I quickly sketch how I would imagine the HRE:
Economic powerhouse at the later game stages (that says: keeping the settler wagons of course)
Mercenary focus: most of those boni have been transferred to the Austrians where they dont fit as good in my opinion. Maybe Germans could have all mercenaries available an age earlier but for an increased fee. Thus also enabling the Reichstag with it's special upgrades in age II. (If you are at it- could you also change back the advanced-mercenaries-shipment's icon to it's original form? It looked much more distinctive) Anyway, this should go well with a rework for the Wallenstein-churchtech which I mentioned in the last post.
Also dont forget that they already have a huge uniquess with the Kreisarmeen from the Reichstag which makes them distinctive different to play from any other civ (although you know I'd like the Kreisarmeen to be in a different fashion). One more thing I imagine would be-better incorporation of the German "natives" ie the German states within the HRE civ. I think settlerwagons should also be added to the Bavarians, not only Wurttembergians and Westphalians. But I think they should be the same units as regular settlerwagons (currently they are different, similar to the old Coureur de Bois and the Cree-Coureur de Bois) thus enabling you to train additional settlerwagons, if you have possession of such a tradepost. And one last thing, talking about German natives: maybe consider making the Black Brunswicker a musketeer-type-unit instead of a skirmisher-type-unit (as of now, there is not a single musketeer-native-unit!)
To sum it up quickly:
MAJOR FOCUS: Mercenaries, late-game-economy
MINOR FOCUS: Strong units (Kreisarmeen/Reichstag)
RG: Handcanoneer, Husar
Replace Warwagon with dragoon!

Quote:
I admit I never quite got the idea behind Austrian stuff costing wood rather than food. Thus I assume it's just a mere incentive to make it stand out mechanically. But "moving" (sounds so easy, eh) that system to Dutch, bleh. ^^
As for the Deytscher, I currently consider to rename the Line Infantry to that, since Line Infantry is just too generic for a unique unit and too unspecific for Austrians in particular. It'd much rather suit as a name for any generic Musketeer upgrade (as possible in the AoE2 nomenclature, which I really like) or an unique French musketeer.
I have plans to introduce more Austrian marksmen, but not gonna reveal yet how. Devil


Well, it's only the politicians that cost wood instead of coin. And as you pointed out, yes it let's them stand somewhat out, but it seems very artificial for me. Units are priced normal, except there is the "Inhaber"-shipment which makes your infantry and cavalry cost no coin, more food and some wood. I think it would be really easy to move this to the Dutch and allowing also musketeers etc for them. The problem for Austria is that they have some many boni attached to them which don't make any sense taken together. Similar to HRE I'll post a quick outline of how I'd imagine the austrian civ:
MAJOR FOCUS: Defensive Structures, Food-and-wood-economy
MINOR: Natives, Archaic combat
RG: Husar, ?
This is in fact pretty similar to the way Austria currently is. But all(most) mercenary-boni are shifted to HRE and the native-powers are reduced or shifted (for example to the Ottomans). There are some synergies because (most) natives as well as archaic units cost food and wood. There should be cards that shift artillery and structure cost to food/wood instead of coin. Also instead of being able to call Grenzers from your Outposts only a single time, this ability should be expanded to make the structures more important in gameplay (maybe making grenzers only trainable in outposts/keep?; currently they are basically the most used Austrian unit, even though they should only be support actually; removing their RG would also be a possibility to reduce their appearance on the battlefields).
Even if you don't consider these changes, please review the structures and their affiliated techs. Some don't work properly, some are utterly pointless.
Any special unit Austria should have should also only cost food/wood (currently this would be line-infantry). To prevent you from running out of wood in lategame, there are special cards that increase your factories wood production ("Papierfabrik"). Homecity shipments to increase archaic (pikeman, arquebusier) unit's prowess in combat.

One issue is still left and that is the respresentation of the various nationalities in Austria. We already have magyars (hussar and grenadier), southern slavs/croats (grenzer) and all generic units are basically Germans. But what about Bohemia, Moravia? So I wouldn't call that unit Deytscher. I guess that's too complicated but we could have all the infantry without royal guard unit but with a special OR-upgrade:
"German": boosts hp
"Hungarian" boosts attack, trousers colored blue

About the marksmen: Well, you got me interested there. Something I thought of once upon a time was that we could have a shared "Jäger"-unit for all the "german" civs (i.e. Austria, Prussia and HRE) replacing the skirmisher as well as the riflemen (similar to the way eastern civs had mounted archers instead of dragoons), available in some form for other civs through church-tech or homecity. Unlike skirmishers they would be available from age II but with short range. It increases through age-ups though, so that in the end you have a unit equal (at least in range) to the rifleman.

Also one more thing about Austrian church techs: Currently Prussia can ship Polish Wing Hussars. This is a leftover from TAD's Germany, which also represented Austria. Those Wing Hussars represent the Polish forces which rescued Vienna in 1683. I think it's fitting if it's shifted to the Austrian church, replacing the tabor-shipment.



Quote:

I had noted the first 2 points already and they'll be addressed with the next version. Gonna check the Barbary Pirate techs. Smile

It's the Muslim Uprising to be exact. It costs 200 food/wood/coin and ships 10 Fellah/Tuareg/Qrsan(sp?). Maybe the price could stay but we could have 1fellah/tuareg/qrsan/2 minute.
Other issues would be:
-With the last update I think the trainable German settlerwagons were moved from mill to tc. That's a severe nerf because you cannot train settlerwagon and settlers simultanously now. I'd defenitely reconsider this.
-Why do the Swedish do get all the early market upgrades for free? Rather make their settlers simply cost 100 food instead of 110 and let them be op solely because of their army but not their economy.
-Prussia's schütze is mcuh too strong. It's heavy infantry I think but has a bonus against all other heavy infantry units, while maintaining boni against light AND heavy cavalry. But if I'm correct they will be replaced with Flügelgrenadiere in the next version anyway?
-Maybe also reconsider the grenzer-nerf from last version. If you cannot train them instant (ie in the next version) they could really use the additional rangeresistance

Hell, that was a lot to type. I think I deserve some extra beer now. Cheers and good night. Smile
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Tilanus Commodor
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Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 5081
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:43 pm    Post subject:

I hope you enjoyed your beer (I did enjoy my Freiberger in Dresden) and seeing that your post was quite worth its length due to the great things you were pointing out and suggesting I almost feel inclined to owe you another beer of yours! (What do you drink?)
Really, I greatly appreciate this post. Let me try to address the single points though in a more compressed manner.

#Streamlined HC boosters
Your calculation is right and the question why Dutch Hussars should be stronger than German ones is righteous. I also agree that the German card has significantly less range than the Polish or Dutch cards. I have noted that and will try to fix those disadvantaged civs. You're once again invited to list the ones that need treatment. Mr. Green

On the other hand your calculation is also a bit incomplete since you don't take unique techs or cost advantages into account that the card-wise disadvantaged civs might possess. A booster with small range might also turn out as a well-considered downside. This is just my view on it and I yet will have to test that theory. Thanks for the spotlight!

I also agree that the Polish card maximizes both effect and precision.

#RM issues
  1. Thank you a lot for the extensive and detailed list. I copied that 1:1 to my to-do. Will have a look.
  2. I do know about the non-fitting guardians and treasures. Which terrains on which maps have you identified as not-matching though? (Hyena, check.)
  3. The domination of dry middle eastern maps has already concerned for a long time. The refocus on Europe is just as old in the internal level design section. ^^
  4. Vinland is Newfoundland, not Greenland. Wink
  5. I know it's called a Russian cop, but a) it could be a policeman of any other state and b) HC visuals have no priority right now. I did already remove the wolves, so I might just replace the cop as well.
  6. The Shangri La map is the correct one. They're (yet) the same, but Shangra La is the wrong name. Possibly a leftover from older installations.
  7. Thanks for the hint regarding Pastoralism.


#TC & Upgrades costs
I'll look into these and compare the costs. It's none of the changes I applied to the game myself.

#Deck composition
I honestly have no clue about how to fix that, but it's not the first time I hear about the issue...

#Elite units
I agree that Chevauxleger doesn't quite fit the unit (have a better one except Chasseur a cheval?), but I think the unit itself is pretty cool (just like the Garde du Corps). I also knew the Sharpshooter's concept needs work. You like the Levee en mass - of which I never liked the Conscripts - and the Swashbuckler - whose name I dislike while other players hate them as enemies. It boils down to subjective judgement in the end, everyone has their own tops and flops. Mr. Green

Matches often not reaching Age IV is a phenomenon limited to sup games on an advanced and high competitive player level. The majority of players enjoys this game on a much lower level in singleplayer though. However, team games increase the likeliness of competitive sup players also reaching age 4. It's not a NE-specific issue as AoE3 is the only AoE with 5 ages and most pro games already end in Colo. If I'd care only about these and consequently follow the point you made I could cut off everything after age 3 and scale down the HCs from 148 to the 40 most used cards. Wink
In the perspective of pro gamers there's few useful and lots of obsolete content. Pulling everything forth is no solution for the phenomenon, but may ultimately just be a civ-specific bonus (i.e. for France).

#Free units & auto-heal bonus
Yeah, Prussia gets enough free units already. I don't think the auto-heal could get activated by tech though . Maybe you're right and another civ should get this auto-heal bonus. I was thinking about Denmark, naval only though (and maybe priests), because their land units are already backed with unique healing support. Poland with auto-heal would be OP.

The free units for the HRE fits actually quite well to the way the Reichsarmee has historically been organized through contributions of the imperial states. I'd just say the unit that should ideally be a pikeman-like Landsknecht unit or a Musketeer (those two representing the historically most frequently comtributed troop types). And that's also where the eternal story about German redesign efforts starts: Nailing the HRE's unit roster including special types of availability. I think I'd prefer another thread for this though, since it's a rather extensive topic. An earlier GdC would be doable actually, just not generally. I'm not utterly convinced yet, because all states have long traditions of household guard cavalry (Guardia Real, Mousquetaires du Roi, etc.). This is why I consider the GdC more as a shared elite unit than something unique to Germans.

#Politicians
I don't think the Austrian political system was less repetitive than the HRE's complex one. Also, luckily, AoE3 politicians are not only politicians. And in that regard I consider the HRE to offer greater variety in choices. They could just be more specific. ^^

#Pappenheimers
Did you know Pappenheim was a Reichsritter himself? Reichsritter continued to be part of the hierarchies and politics within the Imperial framework In that context you may say 'Pappenheimers are in already', especially if you consider that the main aspect about them being heavy ranged cuirassiers is already covered by the Reichsritter card. On the other you may argue that 'Pappenheim(ers) Cuirassiers' are such a well-known troop type that it'd be a mistake not to feature them nominally. In that regard I could imagine boosting hypothetical German Dragoons through a card in a fashion that's similar to Reichritter for Black Riders.

On a final note I forgot to explain that I think 'Black Rider' is not a bad choice for this unit if you take into account that the German 'Schwarze Reiter' are their historical examples, but also have a name that is hard to pronounce for any non-german speaker. Wink So I see hardly any gain in a renaming.

#Germans
As I said I'd like to discuss this in another thread actually. So I'll do just a quick run-through of your questions. If you want to discuss them in more detail, please use another thread:
  • I agree keeping settler wagons, but disagree to give them to other German natives. Seems like a boring and lame way to artificially boost their appeal. Also does conflict with my plans for European natives.
  • I disagree with the term 'economic powerhouse', the emperor was always short on money Mr. Green So Settler Wagons@TCs should be fine. You likely have more TCs at the time wagons become available.
  • Stronger mercenary re-focus, yes! Earlier availability, possibly. Faster train, likely.
  • Brunswicker Musketeer: to be resolved.
  • More native musketeers: Yes.
  • Replacing War Wagons with Dragoons: YES!
  • Yes to your focus, disagree with the priority. ^^

Quote:
Also dont forget that they already have a huge uniquess with the Kreisarmeen from the Reichstag which makes them distinctive different to play from any other civ (although you know I'd like the Kreisarmeen to be in a different fashion).

I hardly remember. What was it again?

#Austrians
  • They need wood for their focus on fortifications and natives. That makes sense to me. Smile
  • The Inhabers tech consequently just makes it easier for a wood-focused civ to field troops.
  • This:
    Quote:
    I think it would be really easy to move this to the Dutch and allowing also musketeers etc for them. The problem for Austria is that they have some many boni attached to them which don't make any sense taken together.

    ... is exactly the reason why it's not 'easy to move' due to the many links that'd need to be untied and empty space that'd need to be refilled 'as quickly'. Also I feel that the Low Countries have not as much forests on their hands as did the Austrians in their Balkan empire. Wink To my own surprise the longer I think about this the more and more reasons I see why Austria got that bonus.
  • I agree with your focus selection, except for one and that is Archaic combat. I'd replace it with another small focus which is cavalry. Smile
  • The wood-food focus benefits the training of all native units, not just the archaic ones.
  • Quote:
    There should be cards that shift artillery and structure cost to food/wood instead of coin.

    I disagree due to balance concerns. They need a counter-resource and if we agree to send back most of the mercenary boni to the HRE (and Swiss), then Austrian gold gather rates could be standardized. Smile
  • I have already removed the Grenzer RG (haha, what a coincidence). They cost wood and food as far as I remember. Line Inf is quite powerful and thus should cost gold.
  • I think there are cards about Bohemia (not sure about Moravia). And we also considered them as natives. Only hypothetical right now though. On the other hand, those regions were hardly relevant if you take away the nominal power and status granted on paper.
  • The split into either German or Hungarian is a nice fancy idea, but it's not possible to let a unit speak another language at a specific point in time. I also don't see how it'd work for the majority of units.
  • Jäger, Chasseur, Cacciatore, Caçador, every civ has their own description of one and the same troop type. Even though Jäger is a today well-known name (also thanks to some alcohol you surely know as well ^^) I don't see a notable fundamental or qualitative difference. It's also not needed from a civ design's perspective. Not to mention a unit like this requires unique stats and considering there already are tons of unique skirmisher units with their own stats it seems like an unnecessarily tough objective to force a unit like this just for mere fanciness.
  • Winged Hussar card will be moved to Austria, thx for the hint!

#Other notes
  • I also like your suggestion for the Muslim uprising tech. On the other hand is the immediate availability of the units the big appeal and also illustrated effect of the card. Qrsan is spelled like Korsan, I approve the name is certainly the better choice.
  • Already answered to the settler wagon bonus. I don't think it's that severe. Build a goddamn TC. Almost needless to say the unit is hilarious to consider unique from a historical perspective and the bonus an obsolete stereotypical reference to German colonists in 'murica (fuck yeah!). Razz
  • Thanks for the hint regarding Swedish market techs. Gonna fix it! :thumbsup:
  • Yes, Schütze will be fixed. They'll keep the ranged bonus vs other HI though. In melee they'll only get the standard x3 vs Cav, additional boni vs LC will vanish completely. Flügelgrenadier is just the RG of the Leibgarde, which will be the new name of the Schütze due to the swap of stats and designs.
  • I never wanted Grenzers to insta-train, so if that still is possible please let me know how. I also might just not have fixed yet. For these things I do notes that I don't have at my hands right now.
    Ranged resistance and boni have been nerfed, because the unit was just too unreal. I don't plan to undo any of these changes unless the HP drops even further from the current 95 and becomes some sort of overarmored shit.


Man, answering you is like writing modding reports, it takes forever (especially on phone). I think you owe me a beer for that (or we're quit). Devil
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Silmariel
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:13 pm    Post subject:

Funnily enough I had a Radeberger when writing this little novella so there is also this Dresden connection. It's a really nice city visit (esp. with a girlfriend imho). Have you been to the Bundeswehrmuseum as well? Wink
Freiberger is one of my favorites as well and as I'm writing here, I'm emptying such a bottle. With the university starting over now it's time to readopt my heavy drinking habits. Topmodel

#HC boosters
I'll see what I can do

#RM-issues
Cactuses on the Alps map for example

#Deck composition
Strange enough, it works for the AI.

#Free units/auto-heal
Auto-heal for Danish ships is certainly a good idea. I did not suggest to give free auto-heal to Poland but tried again to stress that I think that free cavalry would be good for either Poland and Persia. I don't know anything about Persia yet but if Polish farms do not grant housing space anymore they could be given free cavalry units as compensation.

#Pappenheimers
In my opinion the most famous Reichsritter were actually those from Schwaben (also thanks to Mr. Goethe) so I guess they could be incorporated with the Wurttembergians (see my suggestion in the NEnatives thread)and the Franconian Reichsritter be simply renamed to Pappenheimer.

#Germans/Kreisarmeen etc
I'll open a new thread

#Elite units
I'm still a bit wondering. Did you scrap now for any further releases of NE2 what you said in modding report 20? Cheveaulegers were planned as an alternative to hussars at this time and I think all those textures were done already.

#Austria
Well, Austria is supposed to be a wood-heavy civ but currently it is not (really). Why? Because they actually dont have any wood-gathering bonus or something. It's only that they are good with natives BUT only IF they send appropriate shipments (and as long as there are natives on the map). They dont automatically gain free natives with each tradepost, or cheaper native-training. Dutch are completly different, as soon as they have buildt at least two banks they have too much coin most of the time. A Dutch Inhaber card would of course reverse the effect and shift costs from food/wood to coin. This also a remark to what you mentioned in modding report 18 about the Dutch [quote=Tilanus]The Dutch may finance their base army (Musketeers, Arquebusiers, etc.) either mainly or solely with coins [/quote]
I REALLY like Austrians being heavy on wood/food. That fit's their style. But "wasting" a shipment to make a unit to cost wood which is not an infinite resource and also gathered more slowly than the other two is IMO not a good idea. I'd need to waste another shipment to make wood-gathering equal to coin-gathering. I would rather send 700 gold crate and get 9 hussars for which I only have to gather food. And dont forget-I still need gold for artillery, fortification (keeps) and mercenaries) and various economic developments. So my thinking basically evolves about making Austrians MORE wood dependent instead of less.
Current Austrian bonus:
-cheaper villagers
-different defense structures
-politicians costing food/wood(already in age II) instead of food/coin
The only thing I can see here as an artificial barrier for increased use of wood for aging up. The only real focus Austrians have of now is actually shipments in my opinion:
They need two shipments to make Grenzers actually viable (Grenzer Rifles and Skirmishing tactics), they need a card to change their economic focus from food/coin to food/wood (Inhabers), they need all sort of cards to make going native actually viable.
Other wood-heavy civs we have:
-Sweden: free wood with Torps
-Brits: wood for houses (=extreme eco boom) and pike/lb-combo
-Indians: wood for settlers but free settler with every shipment, strong wood trickles and free wood-market upgrades
I fully agree that Austria should have strong cavalry,well actually strong hussars only. But that's not a civ focus. Btw: Austria has the team-card Balkans Cavalry which makes cavalry train faster. Maybe consider this renaming it to Puszta-Cavalry? That's were Hussars actually originate from, you know.
Brits are not considered a cavalry civ because they have the strongest hussars as well as the second strongest dragoons in game. They are considered an economic civ.
Why I would give Austria an archaic-unit-focus: because it goes well with their food/wood-theme and because they were closely aligned with Spain in what would transfer to the early ages in AoE (currently this is only depicted through an AGE IV-church[!] tech though). How such a bonus would look like I'm not really sure though.
Only mention of Bohemia is the church tech that sends 2 tabors and 8 handcanoneers. With tabors hopefully vanishing with the next version there will be little remaining. I cannot fully agree with you-actually at least Bohemia was sort of the heart of the Austrian Empire with Prague being actually a German city also sporting the first university in the Empire if I'm correct (could make for a good shipment, maybe?). Dont forget about Prager Fenstersturz which basically ignited the 30year wars. So I'd absolutely consider Bohemia as an important part. I would not want to have them as natives though. Simply depict them in some way within the Austrian civ. Also Silesia was an economic hotspot for Austria until it was taken by Prussians in 7years war.
German/Hungarian units: Well, commanding language in the Austrian army was always German so I'd not bother about the language. And Magyarsz Husarz still speak Hungarian, right?
Dont know about other technical issues though. Unlike other states Austria actually didn't have "Guard units", at least for infantry units so this would be still valid if it's doable I guess.

#Rest
Grenzer train instant because they are tagged as light infantry (as reported before) and thus affected by reduced training time from shipments such as Riding School AS WELL as by reduced infantry train time (from church in the case of Austria as they don't have Fencing School). I also noted that Finish Jäkari are tagged as light infantry. Problem with Grenzers as anti-skirmishing unit is that they are outranged by skirmishers (16 vs 18 until the Skirmishing tactics shipent is sent which DOES NOT affect skirmishers) while costing the same res. I guess 40% rangeresistance could do them well if they are not trained instant any more.
Another thing: HRE, Prussia and Austria all share the TEAM-faster mill-gathering-in-age-I-shipment, inherited from generic AoE's Germans. Maybe this could be changed to have less redundancy.

Well, I'm sorry but answering on the phone is your own fault. Talking about beer, if you insist we could buy each other a beer at next year's Biermeile Mr. Green[/quote]
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:51 pm    Post subject:

Silmariel wrote:
Funnily enough I had a Radeberger when writing this little novella so there is also this Dresden connection. It's a really nice city visit (esp. with a girlfriend imho). Have you been to the Bundeswehrmuseum as well? Wink
Freiberger is one of my favorites as well and as I'm writing here, I'm emptying such a bottle. With the university starting over now it's time to readopt my heavy drinking habits. Topmodel

Nah, the Bundeswehrmuseum was not in our range, we've been in the Old Town and the Neustadt. I also tried a dark Freiberger and outside of Dresden an Eibauer beer, those were quite good. ^^

Quote:
#HC boosters
I'll see what I can do

#RM-issues
Cactuses on the Alps map for example

Thx.

Quote:
#Deck composition
Strange enough, it works for the AI.

That's because I think AIs don't really use decks.

Quote:
#Free units/auto-heal
Auto-heal for Danish ships is certainly a good idea. I did not suggest to give free auto-heal to Poland but tried again to stress that I think that free cavalry would be good for either Poland and Persia. I don't know anything about Persia yet but if Polish farms do not grant housing space anymore they could be given free cavalry units as compensation.

Prussia gets a free units bonus, not solely free cav. Uhlans being the free cav units is fine IMO. It's true they make for a good raid, but they're also quite easy to fight off. I fear Polish and Persian base cav units are too good for being shipped for free.

Quote:
#Pappenheimers
In my opinion the most famous Reichsritter were actually those from Schwaben (also thanks to Mr. Goethe) so I guess they could be incorporated with the Wurttembergians (see my suggestion in the NEnatives thread)and the Franconian Reichsritter be simply renamed to Pappenheimer.

Popular figures from literature is one thing, important historical ones another. Wink I do want Reichsritter to be featured nominally within the HRE. I'll try to wrap my head around Pappenheimers..

Quote:
#Elite units
I'm still a bit wondering. Did you scrap now for any further releases of NE2 what you said in modding report 20? Cheveaulegers were planned as an alternative to hussars at this time and I think all those textures were done already.

I'm wondering too and I fail to give any proper answer to this right now. There are some upgrades, techs, etc. planned that refer to Chevauleger units. On the other hand it's questionable how realistic it is to redesign all civ rosters for Chevaulegers and other units.

Quote:
#Austria
Well, Austria is supposed to be a wood-heavy civ but currently it is not (really). Why? Because they actually dont have any wood-gathering bonus or something. It's only that they are good with natives BUT only IF they send appropriate shipments (and as long as there are natives on the map). They dont automatically gain free natives with each tradepost, or cheaper native-training.

You're making a good point. I will look into that. Smile

Quote:
Dutch are completly different, as soon as they have buildt at least two banks they have too much coin most of the time. A Dutch Inhaber card would of course reverse the effect and shift costs from food/wood to coin. This also a remark to what you mentioned in modding report 18 about the Dutch

What remark do you mean? I'm not sure I get your suggestions regarding Dutch.

Quote:
I REALLY like Austrians being heavy on wood/food. That fit's their style. But "wasting" a shipment to make a unit to cost wood which is not an infinite resource and also gathered more slowly than the other two is IMO not a good idea. I'd need to waste another shipment to make wood-gathering equal to coin-gathering. I would rather send 700 gold crate and get 9 hussars for which I only have to gather food. And dont forget-I still need gold for artillery, fortification (keeps) and mercenaries) and various economic developments. So my thinking basically evolves about making Austrians MORE wood dependent instead of less.

Okay, I'm fine with adding cards/techs for better wood gather rates. I did also imagine a trickle HC card or technology (kinda like Balkan Forests) that grants a permanent wood trickle.

Quote:
Current Austrian bonus:
-cheaper villagers
-different defense structures
-politicians costing food/wood(already in age II) instead of food/coin

The only thing I can see here as an artificial barrier for increased use of wood for aging up. The only real focus Austrians have of now is actually shipments in my opinion:
They need two shipments to make Grenzers actually viable (Grenzer Rifles and Skirmishing tactics), they need a card to change their economic focus from food/coin to food/wood (Inhabers), they need all sort of cards to make going native actually viable.
Other wood-heavy civs we have:
-Sweden: free wood with Torps
-Brits: wood for houses (=extreme eco boom) and pike/lb-combo
-Indians: wood for settlers but free settler with every shipment, strong wood trickles and free wood-market upgrades

You're right about the amount of artificial barriers that is currently too high. I'll see how much of these needed effects I can grant for free right from the beginning (i.e. Native boni and semi-Inhabers) and what could be merged (i.e. Grenzer Rifling and Skirmishing Tactics).

Quote:
I fully agree that Austria should have strong cavalry,well actually strong hussars only. But that's not a civ focus. Btw: Austria has the team-card Balkans Cavalry which makes cavalry train faster. Maybe consider this renaming it to Puszta-Cavalry? That's were Hussars actually originate from, you know.
Brits are not considered a cavalry civ because they have the strongest hussars as well as the second strongest dragoons in game. They are considered an economic civ.

I think about more heavy cavalry features too (Kyrissers etc.). Puszta-Cavalry, lol. Have a beer too much already? Mr. Green I don't wanna have that food-link ^^

Quote:
Why I would give Austria an archaic-unit-focus: because it goes well with their food/wood-theme and because they were closely aligned with Spain in what would transfer to the early ages in AoE (currently this is only depicted through an AGE IV-church[!] tech though). How such a bonus would look like I'm not really sure though.

As I said it goes well with all natives and does - as a side effect - also benefit the training of Archaic troops and that is enough of a benefit. Setting an additional focus is still a matter of choice which I do reject, because other civs suit that scheme much better (i.e. Swiss, HRE).

Quote:
Only mention of Bohemia is the church tech that sends 2 tabors and 8 handcanoneers. With tabors hopefully vanishing with the next version there will be little remaining. I cannot fully agree with you-actually at least Bohemia was sort of the heart of the Austrian Empire with Prague being actually a German city also sporting the first university in the Empire if I'm correct (could make for a good shipment, maybe?). Dont forget about Prager Fenstersturz which basically ignited the 30year wars. So I'd absolutely consider Bohemia as an important part. I would not want to have them as natives though. Simply depict them in some way within the Austrian civ. Also Silesia was an economic hotspot for Austria until it was taken by Prussians in 7years war.

As I said, the nominal power and prestige of Bohemia was much greater than it had de facto. Important events such as the Prager Fenstersturz took place in Bohemia, but the contribution of actual Bohemians to them is little to non-existant as those events were initialized by a layer of political power that came from the outside. Don't worry, I will ensure Bohemia will continue to be featured within the Austrian civ, I just won't hype them as much as you do. I do consider Silesia Prussian, just like good ol' Frederick. Devil

Quote:
German/Hungarian units: Well, commanding language in the Austrian army was always German so I'd not bother about the language. And Magyarsz Husarz still speak Hungarian, right?

Still doesn't fit. A commander may speak good German, but the ordinary Hungarian soldier's German would be miles apart from High German. I don't like it and prefer to include Hungarian infantry differently. But yes, Magyar Huszars will speak Hungarian.

Quote:
#Rest
Grenzer train instant because they are tagged as light infantry (as reported before) and thus affected by reduced training time from shipments such as Riding School AS WELL as by reduced infantry train time (from church in the case of Austria as they don't have Fencing School). I also noted that Finish Jäkari are tagged as light infantry. Problem with Grenzers as anti-skirmishing unit is that they are outranged by skirmishers (16 vs 18 until the Skirmishing tactics shipent is sent which DOES NOT affect skirmishers) while costing the same res. I guess 40% rangeresistance could do them well if they are not trained instant any more.
Another thing: HRE, Prussia and Austria all share the TEAM-faster mill-gathering-in-age-I-shipment, inherited from generic AoE's Germans. Maybe this could be changed to have less redundancy.

Ah .. at some point I will put an end to this fucking Light Infantry misery and remove it from the troops that have the tag in AoE3 and give it to those that deserve it. disgust

Quote:
Well, I'm sorry but answering on the phone is your own fault. Talking about beer, if you insist we could buy each other a beer at next year's Biermeile Mr. Green

Uh, that's only next summer ^^ I'd rather go to a bar or meet at some other occasion and have a god beer. Wink
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Silmariel
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:55 pm    Post subject:

#HC boosters

Cavalry:
Dutch: Cavalry Combat provides +15% HP/Atk for all units tagged cavalry
Otto: Cavalry Combat provides +15% HP/Atk for all units tagged cavalry
HRE: Cavalry Combat and Cavalry HP provide 15% for warwagons and hussars; TEAM Cavalry Attack provides +15% atk for all units tagged cavalry
Swiss: *
Prussia: Handcavalry Attack provides +20% for any melee cavalry and coyote runners; Cavalry Combat** provides DHH and Uhlans with +15% HP/Atk; Lippizaner Cavalry*** provides +15% HP/Atk for Uhlans
Italy: Cavalry Combat/Cavalry Attack/Cavalry HP provide +10% HP for all units tagged cavalry as well as additional +5% HP/Atk for Condottierei, Dragoons, Utili, Husar, Elmeti and Stratiot
Spain: Melee Cavalry Combat/Melee Cavalry Attack/Melee Cavalry HP provides +15% HP/Atk for Hussars and Lancers
USA: Cavalry Combat provides +15% HP/Atk for Hussars, Dragoons and Mounted Riflemen
Russia: Cavalry Combat provides +15% HP/Atk for all units tagged cavalry****
Austria: Cavalry Combat provides +15% HP/Atk for all units tagged cavalry
Sweden: Cavalry Combat provides +15% HP/Atk for all units tagged cavalry
Poland: Hussar Combat provides +15% HP/Atk for Hussars; TEAM Ranged Cavalry Attack provides all ranged cavalry units with +15% Atk; TEAM Cavalry HP provides all Cavalry Units with +15% HP; Cavalry Attack and Cavalry Combat***** provide +10% HP/Atk for all units tagged cavalry as well as additonal +5% HP/Atk for all Polish cavalry units (also Chevauleger, Szlachta, Tabor, Cossacks from Churchtech, Cossacks from HC, Tartars from HC)
Gerat Britain: Cavalry Attack/Cavalry Combat/Cavalry HP provide +15% HP/Atk for Hussars and Dragoons
France: Melee Cavalry LP provides +15% LP for cuirassiers and hussars; TEAM Melee Cavalry Attack provides +15% Atk for all melee cavalry units tagged cav; Cavalry Combat provides +15% HP/Atk for all cavalry units (sic!)
Portugal: Dragoon Combat provides +20% HP/Atk for Dragoons as well as +15% HP/Atk for Hussars


Infantry:
Dutch: Infantry Combat/Infantry Attack provides +15% HP/Atk for skirmishers, halberdiers and pikemen while TEAM Infantry HP provides +15% HP for all units tagged infantry
Otto: artillery and jan-boosts only
[b]HRE:
Melee Infantry HP/Melee Infantry Combat/Melee Infantry Attack +15% HP/Atk for Pikemen and Doppelsoldner; Counter-Infantry-HP provides +15% HP for skirmishers and handcanoneers
Swiss: *; Heavy Infantry Combat provides +15% HP/Atk for heavy infantry; Halberdier Combat provides +15% HP/Atk for Swiss Guards and Halberdiers
Prussia: HInfantry HP provides +20% for any infantry unit; Infantry Combat provides +15% HP/Atk to Schutzen and most likely to other infantry as well but description is missing those
Italy: Corssbow-Combat provides +15% HP/Atk for Crossbowmen, Pavise and Militia-Corssbowmen; Archaic-Combat provides +15% HP/Atk for Xbow, Handcanoneer, Pikemen, Rodelero and +10% HP/Atk for Condotierri
Spain: Melee Infantry Combat provides +15% HP/Atk for pikemen and rodelero; Melee Infantry HP provides +15% HP for pikemen and +20% HP for rodelero; TEAM Melee Infantry Attack provides all units tagged melee infantry +15% atk
USA: Ranged Infantry damage provides +15% atk to any ranged infantry but has a wrong icon; TEAM Ranged Infantry HP provides +15% HP to any unit tagged ranged infantry; Miner and Petard Combat has a wrong decsription; Marine Combat provides +15% HP/Atk for Marines
Russia:Strelet Combat provides +20% HP/Atk for strelets; ****
Austria: TEAM Skirmishing HP provides +15% HP to all units tagged ranged infantry but non-heavy infantry but shows wrong deescription
Sweden: Infantry Combat provides +15% HP/Atk for all infantry units
Poland: -
Gerat Britain: Musketeer/Grenadier Attack and Musketeer/Grenadier Combat provide +15% HP/Atk for musketeers and grenadiers; TEAM Musketeer/Grenadier HP provides +15% HP for musketeers and grenadiers as well as ashiguru and sepoy but not for jans, tomahawks, line infantry, schutze, fusilier
France: Ranged Infantry HP provides +15% HP for skirmishers and Xbow; TEAM Infantry attack provides +15% atk for gunpowder infantry
Portugal: TEAM-Gunpowder-Infantry-HP provides all units tagged as gunpowder infantry +15% HP; Gunpowder-Combat and Gundpowder-Attack provide +15% HP/Atk for musketeers and cazadors

I skipped artillery because there is afaik no mercenary-artillery except l'il bombard. There is one thing though, with the Swedish "Advanced Artillery" shipment. It has the same icon as other nations "Advanced Artillery" shipments but a much more wide reaching effect. It would be good if there was either a different icon or streamlined version, so all nations could get the benefit.

*Swiss have a shipment that increases melee cavalry and melee infantry attack but no values are given in the description. Next to a new description also a special icon for this shipment would be good
**Prussian Cavalry Combat has a wrong icon as it currently only boosts melee cavalry (Uhlans and DHH) but shows general Cavalry Combat-Icon
***Lippizaner Cavalry does not belong to Prussia, reasons see below
****Russia has an additonal boost card ("Boyars") which also boosts Oprichniki's and Cossacks' by +15% HP and Atk as well as those of strelets
*****Polish Cavalry Combat shipment has the wrong icon as it also boosts ranged cavalry but shows the icon of Melee-Cavalry-Combat.




#Missing Cards/AI using deck

Well, I saw HRE-AI fielding Grenzers/Line-infantry quite some times. And I don't think they can be obtained by any other way than shipments. How exactly AI makes use of HC-shipments is beyond me though.

#Free units/Free Healing
I think there's a little misunderstanding here. I absolutely think that Uhlans are a good choice for a free cavalry for the exact reasons you named there. But HRE does not get Uhlans as cavalry and there were plans announced in a MR for Prussia to have DHH as hussar replacement and dragoons as a counter-cavalry. I'd keep the Uhlan/DHH-combo for Prussia (also because only this way the Bayreuth Dragoons shipment can be saved), slightly revising the DHH's stats though. But even if Prussia keeps Uhlans they already get so many free units with their military buildings. Free cavalry is an interesting bonus though so it would be good to find a civ in need of a land bonus that could benefit from it. Poland and Persia were my first choices as they are cav-centered civs. For Poland I thought it could ship the new Liso-unit (you know, spelling...), even if it's a mounted archer now. Unless it's transformed from a cheap masscavalry to an elite unit. But if it inherits the szlachta's raiding ability at least to a certain degree and that is no deficit to villager-damage like most ranged cavalry it could be a fitting choice. My third suggestion was Denmark about which we also know very few details. If they get Uhlans this bonus could be applied easily to them as well. Whatever you deem most appropriate.


#Chevauleger/Elite-units
If the Chevauleger is to replace the Hussar I guess it's not that difficult? Only problem would be to find good stats for the unit. How I imagined Chevauleger is a bit different though:
-good health (350)
-mediocre attack (20 x2 vs cavalry and 1,5x vs artillery or 25 x1,5 vs cav and 1,25 vs art)
-mediocre speed (6.25 or 6.50)
-? resistance (if that's possible maybe 10% melee and 10% ranged; otherwise 20% ranged)
-100 food/100 coin
-tagged like hussars/uhlan (melee-cavalry and heavy cavalry)

Trained both in the arts of light cavalry (in AoEIII-terms: heavy cavalry) thus a threat to light infantry (AoE: ranged infantry) and artillery and heavy cavalry (AoE: light cavalry) thus crushing other cavalry such as hussars. They lose to heavy infantry such as pikes and musketeers as well as true counter-cavalry like dragoons/mounted archers. Even though they beat hussars in a one-on-one-fight due to more hp and heavier damage, they are slower than hussars and thus cannot prevent early cavalry from dodging the encounter. Also hussars are somewhat more effective versus skirmishers and their kin or at raiding.

Well, actually, reconsidering it-they would still fit as a Hussar-replacement with those stats imho.

The current chevauleger could be renamed to the aforementioned chasseuer-a-cheval or (if I could decide) skipped entirely. Levee-en-masse could be used as a general revolution unit instead of colonial-militia and sharpshooters would be added as riflemen for those civs that need such a unit. Only unit that remains at university (also because it fits thematically) is the swashbuckler (nice-to-know: the only NE-unit were the light infantry tag was applied correctly btw).


#Dutch
Well, in MR 18 you said you think about making the dutch finance their army MAINLY or SOLELY on coin. So a shipment similar to the Inhaber-card could change food cost to coin only. That would involve some heavy balance-considerations and testing though.

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Okay, I'm fine with adding cards/techs for better wood gather rates. I did also imagine a trickle HC card or technology (kinda like Balkan Forests) that grants a permanent wood trickle.

Sounds promising.

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You're right about the amount of artificial barriers that is currently too high. I'll see how much of these needed effects I can grant for free right from the beginning (i.e. Native boni and semi-Inhabers) and what could be merged (i.e. Grenzer Rifling and Skirmishing Tactics).

That sounds good as well Smile

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I think about more heavy cavalry features too (Kyrissers etc.). Puszta-Cavalry, lol. Have a beer too much already? Mr. Green I don't wanna have that food-link ^^

Well, I guess a lot of Hungarian restaurants name themselves after that region that's true. But people there are also famed for their riding skills and thus evoke the spirit of dashing hussars. If you look for something different I advocate shifting the Spanish Riding School from BOTH Prussia and HRE to Austria. It's base is Vienna for several hundred years now. Also Prussia's Lippizaner Cavalry clearly belongs to Austria for the very same reason (that is-historical accuracy).
Wouldn't Kyrissers simply translate to Cuirassiers being available in age II through HC-shipment similar to Portugal's early dragoons or France's early skirmishers?

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I do consider Silesia Prussian, just like good ol' Frederick. Devil
I do consider it Polish now Wink I would not mind if there was some more reference to Silesian productivity in the Prussian civ though.


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Ah .. at some point I will put an end to this fucking Light Infantry misery and remove it from the troops that have the tag in AoE3 and give it to those that deserve it. disgust

Is it possible to invent new tags? That would clean up the whole confusing mess the developer's left there.

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Uh, that's only next summer ^^ I'd rather go to a bar or meet at some other occasion and have a god beer. Wink

God's beer anytime. Good beer anytime as well. Wink
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