Modding Report #26 - End of the year 2015
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:56 pm    Post subject: Modding Report #26 - End of the year 2015


#26


2015 has been a silent year for NE as we've sadly had no releases, but you people certainly still had a good year with all the great games, movies and music albums having been released 2015, right?
(AoE2 HD: African Kingdoms anyone?) Wink

In this report I'll let you know what we've been working on this year and what's next to come:

  1. First of all, the CoV (Congress of Vienna), our announced civ selection tool: The slow progress on coding it is the main reason why there hasn't been a new NE version in 2015. Surely, we could have released a version like NE 2.1.7b, but we felt very determined to stick to our promise that the next NE version would fix the limited civ selection. Sorry for that! Our coders are doing their best now to get the CoV done as soon as possible! Smile

  2. The Danish are done on the coding site. I've done my best this year to get in contact with the quite rare Danish people and managed to get some nice Danish sounds from their greatness. A lot of thanks goes to Jesper, Anne, Troels, crjensen4 and Anders for their recording efforts! The major deficit in the development of the Danish are their graphics, but we're already working on the missing models.


    Ridders are mounted healers that protect your troops and can take a lot of damage


    The Jütlanders are the Danish Royal Guard Dragoons


    The Rundkirke ('Round Church') is a defensive church that increases the power of nearby military troops (first stage design)


    The Danish are superb defenders thanks to healer support and hitpoint boni. Units like the Ridder unify these boni very well.

  3. The Persians turned out to be a hard nut to crack during development and their concept brought up a series of questions we had to find answers to. Such as how the Persians are supposed to fit into the order of asian, TAD-style civs that on the other site have quite a lot in common with Ottomans. Since the mod is with the Persians going to feature 3 muslim civs, we started to consider unique traits of muslim civilizations. Also longer phases of inactivity of the people trusted with their development caused some notable delay. We managed to resolve most of the open questions though and now they're on a good course again.


    Tofangdar Musketeer of the Persian Safavids (Age 2)


    Tofangdar Musketeer of the Persian Afsharids (Age 3)


    The Tofangdaran are not true musketeers as they don't have a bayonet to beat cavalry in melee. Instead they are inverse musketeers and have a small ranged anti cavalry bonus. They also possess a good range and damage, but come with a price.

  4. All civs were and are being reviewed for potential civ redesigns and a series of decisions has already been made and realized. A few examples of things we're working on or are planning to do:
    • Americans with less, but new settlers. More revolutionary, mass militia-based gameplay with batch training (moved from Russians).

    • British without Longbowmen and Dragoons, but 1-2 new unique units. Limited access to skirmishers and riflemen. We can also imagine a British booming bonus without manors.

    • New AI leader and artillery unit for Dutch, considering Musketeers, Dragoons as well as Arquebusiers with Royal Guards.

    • French with a Commander unit and citizen system (instead of Settlers) imagined from NE3. More revolutions than any other civ.

    • The German unit roster is being modernized further in which War Wagons will be replaced by Dragoons and the Doppelsöldner's appearance in later ages will be avoided by turning them into some other Landsknecht-style unit.

    • The presence of archaic Italian units will be reduced by replacing the cost-inefficient Condottiero as well as the Utili and introducing more Royal Guard units. Condottieri will take a Shogun-like role. Their economic powerplay will experience a strong nerf, which includes new military downsides.

    • The Ottomans got the designs from PredatoR's Ottoman Civ mod included in a way that fits NE. They'll get new unique university units, an unique revolution and further new Ottoman designs, units and maybe a new building are planned.

    • The Polish-Lithuanian civ profits from ideas and suggestions made by user Pawelec_POLAND. Hodowlanys (now Folwarks) are no longer age up requirements, but the age up systems will be changed to something else (with no ordinary age 5). Their stable units have been completely redone incl. their royal guards. Winged Hussars (or Husarze) will be a new infantry-crushing heavy cavalryman.

    • The Portuguese will no longer get the best Dragoons, but become an excellent infantry civ with good connections to their numerous colonies. Free TC bonus restored.

    • Russians say do svidaniya to stereotypical, soviet-style Strelets and get a very decent Arquebusier-Skirmisher hybrid instead. Archaic units like Oprichniki or Poleaxemen will reappear at other places in either the Russian civ or the mod. Better late game thanks to stronger units and greater unit selection. Also considering stronger Asian influence. Unique settlers and delayed modern units. Batch training moved to Americans.

    • The almost medieval Spanish will get most of their archaic units compressed in a new Tercio banner army. New Church tech units and milita unit.

    • Sweden is getting completely reworked with ordinary Royal guards and no freaky stat boosters. We'll ensure their strong rush capabilities through a new unique unit that replaces 2 regular Barracks units. Hackapells removed as mercenary and merged with Drabants, whose stats have been revised as well. Torps changed to functional houses. New interpretation of mercenary and arsenal bonus. Leather cannon removed, Hussars added. Dragoons sacrifice range for damage. Generally Swedish units profit from stronger melee attacks.

    • The Swiss civ is turned into a new sort of civ that doesn't do well in 1v1, but does very well in a team. Hussars will be replaced by a new Swiss rider. No longer mobility-focused gameplay. Normal civ setup without Followers. Supply wagons act now as mobile house, arsenal and resource gatherer.

    • Chinese, Indians and Japanese are now considered to get updated or reworked if we can come up with realizable, satisfying alternative concepts. Kangcliff suggested a better Consulate system. Firestorm and Hillys have made up their minds on more accurate, credible concepts for Indians and Japanese. We want Indians to feature their native armies and not those of the British East India company (i.e. with Ghurkas). The presence of archaic elephants will strongly be reduced, artillery gets modernized and their stable units will be reworked.

    • We've also had ideas on how the Aztecs, Iroquois and Sioux could and should look like in NE. Their alternative concepts fundamentally reject the idea of euphemistic, exaggerated native super warriors and get them and their capabilities grounded. Some ideas are very radical and it seems likely that we would - in case we do rework them - treat them as bonus civilizations.

    • Some people liked the Inca bonus civ in NE and there are also some voices within the team that vote for continuance in the mod. If there should ever be something like that, it'll remain a bonus civ, that gets a fictive design, but receive our very special historical credibility treatment. Wink


  5. Ideas and features that we are working on that affect various civs:

    1. The Chevauleger (without x) is becoming the "new Hussar" in regards of stats. The Hussar will in return be lighter and cheaper.
    2. The Elite units (also Late game units) from University will be rebalanced and given new designs and concepts. We also consider more civ-specific designs of them.
    3. Cavalry Archers will most likely become available in Age 2, but also need a Veteran upgrade to be on same level as Dragoons in Age 3.
    4. Redesigned revolutions for the Euro-style civs.
    5. Just for fun we sketched some bonus civs.
    6. There will be some new mercenaries and treasure guardians.
    7. We are redoing visuals of regular objects like Crossbowmen, Mamelukes, Cavalry Archers and more Smile
    8. I selected and included new sounds for weapons and UI. They're really good (so wouldn't be surprised to see WoL stealing them.. Razz )
    9. We have been sketching new maps for NE and the cooperation with befriended modders over the year has been fruitful. Expect many new maps!
    10. Surely, we'll also ship new natives with them and update older ones. Arabs, Scots, Greeks, Cossacks will be next!
    11. We were and are reviewing the standard techs, especially the many ones in the University and consider to make them fit the European or Napoleonic theme.
    12. We consider new roles for standard buildings such as Churches and Capitols.
    13. What was announced earlier still counts: All royal guards and units from Church techs will receive civ-specific, unique unit designs, thanks to the tremendous work by JRussell!
    14. Napoleonic Era will finally stop acting as a mere, inofficial expansion to the game, but increasingly emphasize and build its own characteristic features, that - in our view - improve the whole game.
    15. Prepare for more stuff from the other Age of Empires games. We are working on that!


Further infos on what NE 2.1.8 will contain will be coming in January 2016. But for now, let's all end 2015 with a nice NE screenshot of ..
Spoiler:

British Redcoats!
(Musketeer Royal Guards)







King Green!



The NE team wishes all of you a happy new year 2016!
Hooray! Hooray! ^^

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rewenger.
Prussian Landwehr
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:53 pm    Post subject:

Happy new year!! Hooray! Hooray! ^^

The revenge for the burning of Copenhagen will soon come to the English lol

Any plans on Norwegian sounds on the Norwegian units?
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vino90m
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:16 am    Post subject:

Hi ,
I expect hussar like cavalry in Indian army( historically Indians used Horse cav's ) and Unique arsenal techs for Asians as well as for Native americans. bcoz in post industrial or post imperial game play arsenal techs and some other special are active for Europe's and they can get factory wagon and fort wagon from home city where as Asian civics cant built any wonders so that they cant train special units unable to get the special abilities...

so i expect a special buildings like university for Asians where they can built some special banner armies Ex Urumi Army,Mahout army. for indians Iron trop army, light cav army (bcoz chinese lack in light cav), Ninjaarmy for Jap, Similarly for Native american civics

kindly change the mahout lancer and war elephant melee attack animation ( i want it to attack like in the combination of howdahs and flailiphant meele mode) and let it to be trained like a banner army in limited quantities

Enable melee attack for siege elephant

i think sioux lack in siege attack give them ram like unit

Sorry for my English

Happy New Year to every one Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green
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UnstoppableStreletsy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:26 pm    Post subject: My reaction to the news

i would like to comment on your proposals. I do think that the inca should remain a part of ne because I saw how good of a civ they were in wol. I think the chevaulaxer should remain the same way as it has in the past because I think having a powerful dragoon is interesting in gameplay. What will come of the war wagons if they are not a main german unit? What will the new india look like exactly if it is not a "british" version of it? What influence will Portugal's colonies have on gameplay?
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Crazy Crusher
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Modding Report #26 - End of the year 2015

Thanks so much for all your hard work, Tilanus.
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Firestorm
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 1:58 am    Post subject: Re: My reaction to the news

UnstoppableStreletsy wrote:
i would like to comment on your proposals. I do think that the inca should remain a part of ne because I saw how good of a civ they were in wol.

If NE is going to have a re-worked Inca civilization, it will be very different from that of WoL. They together with the TWC civilizations caused some problems to this mod because they are far behind compared to Europeans and Asians regarding technology, military etc. In any case they will get an upgrade/modernization that will be somewhat fictional.

UnstoppableStreletsy wrote:
I think the chevaulaxer should remain the same way as it has in the past because I think having a powerful dragoon is interesting in gameplay. What will come of the war wagons if they are not a main german unit?

With NE introducing the Chevauleger as a new meele medium cavalry, it doesn't mean that this mod won't have anymore a powerful dragoon-type unit. It can be another unit with a new name. The German War Wagon and Polish Tabor will be kicked but we can use their design somewhere either at the Austrian civilization or european natives.

UnstoppableStreletsy wrote:
What will the new india look like exactly if it is not a "british" version of it? What influence will Portugal's colonies have on gameplay?

India will be as historically was from 1550 to 1800/1815. As NE Germans and NE Italians they are a combination of the large empires and kingdoms that existed there during NE timeline. I mean: Mughal Empire, Maratha Empire, Mysore, Sikh Empire etc. So, no more British Colonial troops on their roster, unless throughout the consulate. Regarding Portugal, some of their high class units used on their colonies will be present on a way or another.

Regarding your signature, both Congress of Vienna and Throne Room are devices that allows the players to switch the civilizations they wants to play against, create a new HC etc. It is the only easy way to do that, so considering it a copy from WoL is childish and foolish. Is like NE and WoL debating about why both made an American or Austrian civ. As long they have different concept and design there's no problem. And CoV and ThR have different design. The debate about who's better between the two mods is a long story. But it isn't worth to be discussed at this beautiful modding report Mr. Green
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UnstoppableStreletsy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:46 pm    Post subject:

Well I think that your mod will be the first to have a throne room feature on mac since the wol team did little to test on mac for a long time. I actually sent them a guide that proves that wol can be installed manually on mac and all that will be needed is the throne room along with some other tweaks regarding sound. And yes I think since the units wol are so speechless that the wol guys will definitly be on the hunt for new unit dialogue. Afterall 2 civs are using age of mythology sounds. I think that if you decide not to do anything more with the inca I think that they should at least have thier own homecity cards and a fixed fire pit. The one concern I have with the ottomans in 2.8b is that they may look too much like the wol civ with a archer and the azap together. Then again the azap in ne is more like a halberdier than the wol pileman version. I do not know what can be done with the aztecs besides giving them new warriors or maybe even a spanish cannon.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:33 am    Post subject:

What other things from the other Age of Empires games will you import?
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Ivenend
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:53 am    Post subject:

Happy new year! Hooray! Hooray! ^^

Tilanus Commodor wrote:

[*]The German unit roster is being modernized further in which War Wagons will be replaced by Dragoons and the Doppelsöldner's appearance in later ages will be avoided by turning them into some other Landsknecht-style unit.


Now really wonder that what would the late-era Doppelsöldner looks like! Banana!
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Pawelec_POLAND
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:41 pm    Post subject:

No Imperial Age for the PLC? Oh good, to my surprise it seems I was a bit of help.

I'm very curious about redoing the revolutions for European civs.
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:56 pm    Post subject:

Hey everybody! Hope you all had a nice NYE party! Cool Just replying back quickly from my ongoing trip in the Netherlands. Smile

Crazy Crusher wrote:
Thanks so much for all your hard work, Tilanus.

Thanks, you're welcome! Wink

rewenger. wrote:
The revenge for the burning of Copenhagen will soon come to the English lol

So, it's gonna be some sort rewenge? Mr. Green

Quote:
Any plans on Norwegian sounds on the Norwegian units

Well yes, the plan is actually quite simple: 1. Find a Norwegian with an acceptable microphone 2. Let him record the voices Mr. Green

vino90m wrote:
I expect hussar like cavalry in Indian army( historically Indians used Horse cav's ) and Unique arsenal techs for Asians as well as for Native americans. bcoz in post industrial or post imperial game play arsenal techs and some other special are active for Europe's and they can get factory wagon and fort wagon from home city where as Asian civics cant built any wonders so that they cant train special units unable to get the special abilities...

Yeah, we had units like the Pindari or (horse-based) Sawar planned instead. As for the inability of TAD civs to rebuild their special buildings, we know about that. On the other side that forces also a certain playstyle, but we did consider to make buildings like the Dojo rebuildable. What others - except wonders - should be as well in your opinion?

Quote:
so i expect a special buildings like university for Asians where they can built some special banner armies Ex Urumi Army,Mahout army. for indians Iron trop army, light cav army (bcoz chinese lack in light cav), Ninjaarmy for Jap, Similarly for Native american civics

And what buildings should these be? You want something like a TAD university? Actually these civs have buildings that act similarly (i.e. Wonders or Dojo) and TAD civs are quite strong by themselves compared to European ones (which is why they were given these extras).

Quote:
kindly change the mahout lancer and war elephant melee attack animation ( i want it to attack like in the combination of howdahs and flailiphant meele mode) and let it to be trained like a banner army in limited quantities

Enable melee attack for siege elephant

We wanna reduce the amount of Elephant units and combine their skills, so these merges are definitely gonna happen. Wink

Quote:
i think sioux lack in siege attack give them ram like unit

That's one big deficit I see in the history of native american civs. They lack powerful and credible siege units. That's why I feel these should be downgraded to bonus civs.

Ivenend wrote:
Now really wonder that what would the late-era Doppelsöldner looks like!

Well, I didn't say we want to make a new Imperial Doppelsöldner or something, but that we're actually trying to get rid of units with archaic weaponry in later ages.

Pawelec_POLAND wrote:
No Imperial Age for the PLC? Oh good, to my surprise it seems I was a bit of help.

No imp age, but something else, you know. Wink And yes, I think, even though we didn't agree on everything there were lots of good contributions in between, so that's why I felt like thanking you in that place. Smile

Quote:
I'm very curious about redoing the revolutions for European revolutions.

Yeah, we're excited as well. If you wanna share ideas, just shoot them. Smile


UnstoppableStreletsy wrote:

I do think that the inca should remain a part of ne because I saw how good of a civ they were in wol.

And you think we care about the WoL civs? Mr. Green We don't need to look at them to make good civs, I'm a fucking game designer who teams up with people who know their stuff really well. Also, everything in civ design is exchangeable (like Incas can be made to look like any other civ) and if (everyone go read precisely please) we'd update the NE Inca, then it'll be an Inca civ designed in our own way that we think works best. We at NE are perfectly capable of designing our own decent stuff, WoL is just not the holy grail of design they wanna make you believe and it's not in any way some sort of benchmark to us. It's a beautiful, fancy, but also incomplete, buggy, unbalanced and feature-creepy AoE3 patchwork mod with a huge amount of copy-pasted content that had no releases in 4 years. So, if you think that's the best mod you can think of, go ahead.

Quote:
I think the chevaulaxer should remain the same way as it has in the past because I think having a powerful dragoon is interesting in gameplay.

Yea, we'll still gonna have a unit like that, but with another name, design and some adjusted stats.

Quote:
What will come of the war wagons if they are not a main german unit?

We might feature them at some European native (i.e. Cossacks). Polish Tabors may also continue as a HC unit, even though that's not for sure yet.

Quote:
Well I think that your mod will be the first to have a throne room feature on mac since the wol team did little to test on mac for a long time.
I actually sent them a guide that proves that wol can be installed manually on mac and all that will be needed is the throne room along with some other tweaks regarding sound.

You know, it's only the WoL guys who see that type of competition. I bet Tahattus wouldn't mod anymore if NE was no longer active. He's obsessed to somehow 'beat' NE, but we just care about our own work and want to make it good. And we support Mac, because we want to and because people asked for it. We don't care about being first, because it's meaningless to us.

Quote:
And yes I think since the units wol are so speechless that the wol guys will definitly be on the hunt for new unit dialogue. Afterall 2 civs are using age of mythology sounds. I think that if you decide not to do anything more with the inca I think that they should at least have thier own homecity cards and a fixed fire pit. The one concern I have with the ottomans in 2.8b is that they may look too much like the wol civ with a archer and the azap together. Then again the azap in ne is more like a halberdier than the wol pileman version. I do not know what can be done with the aztecs besides giving them new warriors or maybe even a spanish cannon.

Actually the WoL Ottomans are those by PredatoR who actually did no longer allow WoL to use his work, but decided only to give it to NE (PredatoR is a NE fan of the first hour). And actually I helped him with the Ottoman civ mod, so you can in no way say that this Ottoman civ is a WoL thing. But this case illustrates very well a problem with WoL: People mistake a lot of the things they hear and see in it as WoL achievements even though they are not. Your agreement that WoL would surely steal our self-made recordings just confirms the issue for me.

So NE is gonna have Ottomans that embeds PredatoR's work in our own and all I can say about your concerns is that they're about the wrong mod.

Btw, I disabled your signature, because of your obvious lack of manners and respect as a guest on my forum. The CoV isn't even out, but you already dare to act like some software expert who could already test it. If you're just here trying to create some unrest by abusing the community's hospitality, it's gonna be a very short visit for you here. I can guarantee that. You don't come to a birthday party either and offend the birthday boy or child, do you? ...
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streletsy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:22 pm    Post subject: my feedback

well before wol, napoleonic era was the first mod that I could use without trouble. I saw ne as a expansion to aoe3. I thought that ne 3 was gonna be the changing of the game. I just do not like how ne 2 may end up like ne 3 if the original civs are changed but not added to. I personally think the aztecs as a bonus civ who should get some gunpowder units. I am a little irratated it took a long time to even hear of a throne room working for ne because I wondered how the improved ai would work for the other european/native civs. I do not think the wol team are bad people who steal ideas but I think what thier current porduct is shows the 10 years of work that went into it. I know both sides so I am not biased in anyway. One thing in the mod I am still wondering is how the french academy cannot train the elite units. I also am wondering what specific colonies of portugal will help the mother country? (will it be brazil, africa, or other regions?). I would also like to voice my concern of new aoe2 elements so all I need to know is what features from the other aoe games will be encorperated and how.
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Prussian Landwehr
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:33 pm    Post subject:

Tilanus Commodor wrote:

rewenger. wrote:
The revenge for the burning of Copenhagen will soon come to the English lol

So, it's gonna be some sort rewenge? Mr. Green

Cant wait for the Danish to come Topmodel And yes it will be a rewenge lol

Tilanus Commodor wrote:

Quote:
Any plans on Norwegian sounds on the Norwegian units

Well yes, the plan is actually quite simple: 1. Find a Norwegian with an acceptable microphone 2. Let him record the voices Mr. Green

I can try to do some norwegian voices for this mod, i do have a decent mic.

Tilanus Commodor wrote:

Pawelec_POLAND wrote:

I'm very curious about redoing the revolutions for European civs.

Yeah, we're excited as well. If you wanna share ideas, just shoot them. Smile

Norway as a revolution for both the Sweden and the Denmark, and the Finland for Russia and Sweden.
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Silmariel
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:36 pm    Post subject:

I've been quite busy lately with university and will be for the rest of the semester so I didn't had much time to play AoE or comment on NE things. But what a happy surprise when I clicked on the the NE-bookmark in my browser today. Great modding report, needless to say, as always. Some details:

@Denmark
Veeery nice. I'm quite sure I'll like Denmark a lot. Do you mind devising some of the planned stats for the ridder? Personally I always thought about a special priest, when it was revealed that Denmark would get a special mounted healer. Turns out I'm very wrong. But it seems to fit perfectly into this concept of yours. Still wondering-will they have normal priests as well? Also with all those kinds of defensive boni I think uhlans could work very well for denmark (contrary to what I thought earlier).

@Persia
Absolutely gorgeous units.
I don't think that special muslim-civ-traits are necessary. I'd handle Persians similar to Ottomans as a European civ with lots of uniques. The third muslim civ would be India I guess? They are already distinctive enough as an Asian civ with wonders. So instead of sharing special traits and making them less unique, simply give it to Persia only and it's good I think.
While not directly they still participated in the European theatre (and even the Napoleonic Wars) to a certain degree due to their conflict with Russia. So I would not mind seeing them as an European civ.

@Civ redesign
A lot of great ideas here. What could be nice would be militia units/minutemen(F4 anyone?) spawning from destroyed buildings for the US similar to AoM's Poseidon-Greece.
Also better villager-systems for those various civ seem like a good idea. I never really liked followers, I've to admit.
I'm wondering about Sweden though-what's their main cavalry unit now?-Hussar, Drabant or Hakapeliit? Also what happens to Mörnerska Hussars now that Hussars are regular(keep them as cossacks maybe)?
About those bonus civs and stuff I can only plead not to do that. In my opinion that's wasted time. Use the material to improve the TP-Natives and/or expand the US-consulate. That's much more beneficial to the game imo. Also I'm very glad not to read anything about Koreans but I know/fear that they lurk somewhere in the dark and will be released as a "surprise". Please. Dont be like WotTa/WoL/whatever they are called now. NE started in a very euro-centristic (you might say chauvinistic) way so let's keep it that way. Keep it clean and simple, even if those exotic units are tempting. The most iconic ones still can be mercenaries or something...

@General
Again, a lot of good ideas and things I look forward to. Also dont forget about reviewing arsenal-technologies. Less is more quite often. For example the cavalry sabre tech there actually only really benefits the Prussian DHH. So why not make it a HC-card instead?
Also I could absolutely see a merge of capitol and university coming.

@India redesigned
I read somewhere that originally India was supposed to have urumi-swordsmen as their regular but unique skirmisher-unit. It could be a nice turn if they would eventually get them, with adjusted stats of course. The Dravidian martial arts homecity cards suggests that India was planned as a much more melee-focused civ once. I'd love if the Ghurka was kept as a melee-oriented (khukri!) mercenary though.
By reworking their stable also dont forget about their distinctive Jat-Lancer-mercenary unit (which is a British-Indian unit as well though and actually pretty outdated and absolutely similar to the Elemeti as well as only available to Indians via card/shipment but not the saloon. But I'm sure you can make something out of that...)
Generally speaking it would be nice if Japan and India only get musketeer-units in age III and distinctively nerfed compared to European musketeers.
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Ande59
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:17 am    Post subject:

Quote:
For example the cavalry sabre tech there actually only really benefits the Prussian DHH.


I assume you're talking about the description?. Because DDH are melee-cavalry that fulfill the role of Ranged Cavalry (anti-hand cavalry), it's included within the description. The Sabre tech does what it's supposed to with all the other anti-cav cavalry (Dragoons)
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:42 pm    Post subject:

Alright, just came back from the Netherlands. Here some answers:
rewenger. wrote:
I can try to do some norwegian voices for this mod, i do have a decent mic.

So you wanna send over a record sample as described here? Wink
@Silmariel Spoiler:


Silmariel wrote:
I've been quite busy lately with university and will be for the rest of the semester so I didn't had much time to play AoE or comment on NE things. But what a happy surprise when I clicked on the the NE-bookmark in my browser today. Great modding report, needless to say, as always. Some details:

Danke! I always appreciate your feedback. Smile
Quote:
@Denmark
Veeery nice. I'm quite sure I'll like Denmark a lot. Do you mind devising some of the planned stats for the ridder? Personally I always thought about a special priest, when it was revealed that Denmark would get a special mounted healer. Turns out I'm very wrong. But it seems to fit perfectly into this concept of yours. Still wondering-will they have normal priests as well? Also with all those kinds of defensive boni I think uhlans could work very well for denmark (contrary to what I thought earlier).

The Ridder stats are not final yet and still need some testing. Yes, they'll also get regular Priests, certainly with some bonus as well, since Ridders are evidently more expensive.

They won't get Uhlans by default anymore, only through a Church tech.
Quote:
@Persia
Absolutely gorgeous units.
I don't think that special muslim-civ-traits are necessary. I'd handle Persians similar to Ottomans as a European civ with lots of uniques. The third muslim civ would be India I guess? They are already distinctive enough as an Asian civ with wonders. So instead of sharing special traits and making them less unique, simply give it to Persia only and it's good I think.
While not directly they still participated in the European theatre (and even the Napoleonic Wars) to a certain degree due to their conflict with Russia. So I would not mind seeing them as an European civ.

We do think it is necessary to have muslim civ traits. You'll at some other report see why. Wink

Also, Persians might most likely not get age-up wonders. At Persians we had always to decide between TAD and Euro civ features. In most cases we chose the Euro pattern, but the more we researched the Persians and also the Indians and Ottomans (bc if reworking plans) the more we became convinced a new hybrid set of muslim civ traits was both necessary and helpful.
Quote:
@Civ redesign
A lot of great ideas here. What could be nice would be militia units/minutemen(F4 anyone?) spawning from destroyed buildings for the US similar to AoM's Poseidon-Greece.

That mechanism is too exploitable IMO. Surely, could be limited and very weak. Then it'd work. In every case it should be unique to a civ. Glad that you like the majority of ideas though. Smile

Quote:
Also better villager-systems for those various civ seem like a good idea. I never really liked followers, I've to admit.

Yeah, me neither. Mr. Green
The villager system is from NE3.
Quote:
I'm wondering about Sweden though-what's their main cavalry unit now?-Hussar, Drabant or Hakapeliit? Also what happens to Mörnerska Hussars now that Hussars are regular(keep them as cossacks maybe)?

They'll get Hussars and Hackapells (with Drabants as RGs). Mörners Hussars will still be featured, but I'm not sure yet in which way. Could be a default or optional RG as well as a Church tech unit, even though I think the design is just too enjoyable to limit it to the latter.

Quote:
About those bonus civs and stuff I can only plead not to do that. In my opinion that's wasted time. Use the material to improve the TP-Natives and/or expand the US-consulate. That's much more beneficial to the game imo. Also I'm very glad not to read anything about Koreans but I know/fear that they lurk somewhere in the dark and will be released as a "surprise". Please. Dont be like WotTa/WoL/whatever they are called now. NE started in a very euro-centristic (you might say chauvinistic) way so let's keep it that way. Keep it clean and simple, even if those exotic units are tempting. The most iconic ones still can be mercenaries or something...

Ha, but it's fun to design civs. Mr. Green And they're a nice contrast to our other work. They get us excited and keep up the motivation. Don't worry, we're smart about limiting their share on the time we have to work on NE. Not even a single line of code has been written on Koreans. NE has always had a weird focus featuring mainly (but by far not solely) European civs but lots of desert and Arab style maps and natives. So I'm not going away from the primary European focus in any way by also caring to ensure all the other regions are still covered adequately. And there are lots of possibilities to feature stuff ranging from single units, techs and cards to whole major civs. And a bonus civ is at some, vague place between natives and a major civ. So can be very few, can be a bit more. And have some trust in my abilities not letting things get out of control. Wink

Furthermore it's a good sign we're talking about bonus civs, because it's an indicator that we don't have too much other things planned in that sector. Smile

Quote:
@General
Again, a lot of good ideas and things I look forward to. Also dont forget about reviewing arsenal-technologies. Less is more quite often. For example the cavalry sabre tech there actually only really benefits the Prussian DHH. So why not make it a HC-card instead?
Also I could absolutely see a merge of capitol and university coming.

I think Ande59 got it right, but we might do practise some hack and slay at techs in a couple of buildings. The Capitol for example is quite crowded in NE and I don't see the necessity for all of those.

Quote:
@India redesigned
I read somewhere that originally India was supposed to have urumi-swordsmen as their regular but unique skirmisher-unit. It could be a nice turn if they would eventually get them, with adjusted stats of course. The Dravidian martial arts homecity cards suggests that India was planned as a much more melee-focused civ once. I'd love if the Ghurka was kept as a melee-oriented (khukri!) mercenary though.
By reworking their stable also dont forget about their distinctive Jat-Lancer-mercenary unit (which is a British-Indian unit as well though and actually pretty outdated and absolutely similar to the Elemeti as well as only available to Indians via card/shipment but not the saloon. But I'm sure you can make something out of that...)
Generally speaking it would be nice if Japan and India only get musketeer-units in age III and distinctively nerfed compared to European musketeers.

We're trying to re-imagine parts of the Indian civ by ourselves (so independent from the hints in the game files), I personally do not really intend to redesign the whole civ. We definitely want a less fancy melee infantryman. Know about the Jat Lancer. Ashigarus and Sepoys will be nerfed in every case. One thing needs to be said though, that Asian musketeers cannot said to be generally worse than European ones. The "gunpowder empires" for example put more emphasis on marksmanship than the European states. There was neither a lack of fitness and drill. The differences grow bigger only with further progress in military tactics and technology that the Asians didn't manage to adopt as quickly. Another big difference are the quantities for these types of troops. In Indian armies for example gunpowder infantrymen were a minority and surely were in Japan as well. I'd make up the nature of nerfs from these aspects.

You might want to tell me more about that Khukri melee Ghurka in the India thread.



streletsy wrote:
well before wol, napoleonic era was the first mod that I could use without trouble. I saw ne as a expansion to aoe3. I thought that ne 3 was gonna be the changing of the game. I just do not like how ne 2 may end up like ne 3 if the original civs are changed but not added to. I personally think the aztecs as a bonus civ who should get some gunpowder units. I am a little irratated it took a long time to even hear of a throne room working for ne because I wondered how the improved ai would work for the other european/native civs. I do not think the wol team are bad people who steal ideas but I think what thier current porduct is shows the 10 years of work that went into it. I know both sides so I am not biased in anyway. One thing in the mod I am still wondering is how the french academy cannot train the elite units. I also am wondering what specific colonies of portugal will help the mother country? (will it be brazil, africa, or other regions?). I would also like to voice my concern of new aoe2 elements so all I need to know is what features from the other aoe games will be encorperated and how.

Man, first of all: Are you kidding me? You made another account to bypass my decision as the admin of that forum?! I disabled your new account and if I see you making another new account, you'll be off the forum. You can get your signature back by proving you have better manners. Making smurf accounts is not allowed, especially not to bypass restrictions from admins. Use the old account and deal with the self-inflicted limitations first.

Now to your post: AoE3 is more than 10 years old and NE existed since then as an expansion mod. I feel no longer obliged to limit NE to that. I'm spending a large deal of my free time on that project and the NE team has still a lot of ideas we wanna see realized. For that we have to change the original civs and by that we are at the same paving the road to NE3 (which would've done that anyway). It's our mod and we can do with it whatever we want. You're free to play pure AoE3 again if you think the originals are best or grab another extension mod such as the Improvement mod. We're all convinced that reworks of the original civs are necessary and worth it.

So NE2 is gonna end up like NE3, because after 2.9 there can only be 3.0. The plan to make 2 different NEs doesn't and didn't work (we already tried). As for the WoL team, sure, they are not all bad people. I really like many of them individually, but on the other hand they're yelling so much for attention with their endless self-praise and presentation of copy-pasted assets that it's somewhat disgusting. They've also achieved a lot on their own, I'm not denying it, but it all comes with a bad taste for me.

We'll let you know more about Portuguese colonies (yes, including Brazil and Africa) and the AoE features once time and progress are ready for that.
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