[NCUs] Non-Combat-Units in action

 
   Forum Index -> NE Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Silmariel
Conquistador
Conquistador


Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 356
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:50 am    Post subject: [NCUs] Non-Combat-Units in action

I already posted this suggestion in the natives section about the Maltese knights but I think it's too good to let it rot there.
So, what are those NCUs actually?
I mean all those units that are part of AoE but are neither gatherers nor soldiers. Most famous ones are basically the explorer and the spy for which already countless redesign plans exist. I want to point out some other units: generic priest, generic surgeon, Dutch envoy, Italian and Spanish Inquisitor, Italian Nuncio, Native Scout


Priests:
Priests act as healers trainable from the church. And not much more. No buildlimit. Everybody has them with various skins. Spain has special priests, the mounted missionaries which can boost units' attack when the unction shipment has been sent. Priests and clergymen played an important role in Europe's history. Currently they are a rather boring and expensive unit which hardly pays off. While their healing ability should be kept they can also be used to support your gameplay in various ways similar to the Egyptian pharao from AoM:
-better gathering rates at mills and plantations
-faster unit training at military buildings
-improved attack for defensive buildings
-faster construction when tasked to a construction site
Other buildings such as markets (better exchange rates?), churches (faster priest training, cheaper technologies?), TC (improved attack, faster villager training?), factories (?) can be discussed.
Only one priest can be sent to a building, so no stacking. Also there is a buildlimit for them. I'd say 5. Effect could be 8 or 10%. Spain keeps it's missionaries and their buildlimit of 10 but they yield a smaller bonus (5% each for example) keeping their attack bonus of course. Don't know about Danish Ridders.

Inquisitor:

In my opinion this unit could vanish completly. Spies for everyone! Benefits of a shipment or tech called inquisitors could be distrubted among Spain and Italy and could increase priests in various ways such as seeing hidden units, extended line of sight etc.

Nuncio:
Superior priest unique to Italy. Grants better benefits when tasked to buildings (15 to 20%). Unlike normal priests a Nuncio can also improve a basilica and thus generate a greater reward. Starts with a buildlimit of 1. Which can be improved by techs/shipments (also a teamshipment that ships 1 Nuncio to every teammember similar to the German Settlerwagon shipment). I'd get rid of that damnation/turning ability which is too micro heavy. Maybe Italy already starts with a Nuncio along with the Explorer.

Envoy:

Dutch start with one envoy which is good for scouting but not much more. Has no hiding-ability like the native scout so not very good after the earliest stages of the game. Envoy would make the perfect target for implementation of the oracle-mechanic from AoM's Atlanteans. If the envoy does not move, he gains additional LOS after some time. Adding the ability to gather treasures (not necessarily to fight treasure guardians but simply to pick them up) and build tps could prolong their usefulness to later stages of them game as well.


Native Scout:

I don't think France should start with one of them anymore. ->USA

Surgeon:
The surgeon is a fast healer which can only be obtained via homecity. Either as a team shipment or by enabling them at the church. They get hardly used and shipping them is considered a waste, even though NE introduced some additional techs at the fieldhospital which can be constructed by surgeons. My ideas think them as a late-game unit from the university similar to sharpshooter, swashbuckler etc*. They have a thick range resistance and high hitpoints so they can tend the wounded on the battlefield without being harmed themselves. Not only do they heal at fast rate but they also posses a useable action that allows them to restore a part of the lost hps to units in combat, thus prolonging the combat prowess of your units significantly. Field hospital could be kicked entirely it gets hardly buildt anyway. Any benefits surgeons should posses, they should have from the start.

*Surgeon could replace the Levée en masse who's characteristics should imo be distributed among the revolution militia/units.

I'd appriciate some thoughts on these ideas...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Girafarig
French Conscript
French Conscript


Joined: 02 Feb 2016
Posts: 25
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:33 pm    Post subject: Re: [NCUs] Non-Combat-Units in action

Silmariel wrote:

Priests:
Spoiler:


Priests act as healers trainable from the church. And not much more. No buildlimit. Everybody has them with various skins. Spain has special priests, the mounted missionaries which can boost units' attack when the unction shipment has been sent. Priests and clergymen played an important role in Europe's history. Currently they are a rather boring and expensive unit which hardly pays off.



I use priests, especially when playing with a civ with strong, expensive units like (say) Sweden. They don't add that much in battle (except for Spanish missionaires) but healing your units inbetween each battle means less casualties and, in the long term, big savings economy-wise (not to mention training time).

Quote:
Spoiler:

While their healing ability should be kept they can also be used to support your gameplay in various ways similar to the Egyptian pharao from AoM:
-better gathering rates at mills and plantations
-faster unit training at military buildings
-improved attack for defensive buildings
-faster construction when tasked to a construction site
Other buildings such as markets (better exchange rates?), churches (faster priest training, cheaper technologies?), TC (improved attack, faster villager training?), factories (?) can be discussed.
Only one priest can be sent to a building, so no stacking. Also there is a buildlimit for them. I'd say 5. Effect could be 8 or 10%.



In my opinion, this is actually a great way to kill the priests' effectiveness. Now you have to balance them between keeping them at base, boosting your economy, or bringing them into battle as support. And since you have a build limit, you can't do both – so, in the interest of avoiding micromanaging, you'll just leave a couple priests by the mills or, if they're not worth it, never build them anyway.

Quote:
Spoiler:

Spain keeps it's missionaries and their buildlimit of 10 but they yield a smaller bonus (5% each for example) keeping their attack bonus of course. Don't know about Danish Ridders.



But, see, that's what makes Spain unique: its missionary bonus. You take that away from them (actually, you give that to everybody else) and you end up with a civ with a rather poor endgame, only good for rushing (and even then, not quite). The Spanish give people a reason for people not used to training support units to try them and see how effective they are.

Quote:


Inquisitor:
Spoiler:


In my opinion this unit could vanish completly. Spies for everyone! Benefits of a shipment or tech called inquisitors could be distrubted among Spain and Italy and could increase priests in various ways such as seeing hidden units, extended line of sight etc.



I've hardly ever used Inquisitors or, for that matter, Spies. I guess I could do with all civs getting spies, but I don't really care either way.

Quote:
Nuncio:
Spoiler:


Superior priest unique to Italy. Grants better benefits when tasked to buildings (15 to 20%). Unlike normal priests a Nuncio can also improve a basilica and thus generate a greater reward. Starts with a buildlimit of 1. Which can be improved by techs/shipments (also a teamshipment that ships 1 Nuncio to every teammember similar to the German Settlerwagon shipment). I'd get rid of that damnation/turning ability which is too micro heavy. Maybe Italy already starts with a Nuncio along with the Explorer.



Nuncios are awesome. They heal, they're inmune to ranged attacks and they also boost your units. They're like missionaries on steroids. I always make a bunch of these guys because Italian troops aren't cheap and they can really use the support. On the other hand, Italians get enough economic boni as it is (I hear they're taking some of those away next patch, actually) so I can't see why you'd want them to boost a(n ecomomic) building even further.
The damnation ability is nice to have, like the Explorer's own ability or the Sharpshooter's, but it is indeed a bit too heavy on the micromanaging. That doesn't mean the nuncios need fixing; maybe the damnation ability does, but that's about it. You should be dealing damage with your other units, anyway.

Quote:

Envoy:

Spoiler:

Dutch start with one envoy which is good for scouting but not much more. Has no hiding-ability like the native scout so not very good after the earliest stages of the game. Envoy would make the perfect target for implementation of the oracle-mechanic from AoM's Atlanteans. If the envoy does not move, he gains additional LOS after some time. Adding the ability to gather treasures (not necessarily to fight treasure guardians but simply to pick them up) and build tps could prolong their usefulness to later stages of them game as well.



I agree that the Envoy seems a bit like a poor man's scout, but I guess that's because you can build more of them at the TC.

Quote:

Native Scout:

Spoiler:

I don't think France should start with one of them anymore. ->USA



I agree.

Quote:
Surgeon:
Spoiler:


The surgeon is a fast healer which can only be obtained via homecity. Either as a team shipment or by enabling them at the church. They get hardly used and shipping them is considered a waste, even though NE introduced some additional techs at the fieldhospital which can be constructed by surgeons. My ideas think them as a late-game unit from the university similar to sharpshooter, swashbuckler etc*. They have a thick range resistance and high hitpoints so they can tend the wounded on the battlefield without being harmed themselves. Not only do they heal at fast rate but they also posses a useable action that allows them to restore a part of the lost hps to units in combat, thus prolonging the combat prowess of your units significantly. Field hospital could be kicked entirely it gets hardly buildt anyway. Any benefits surgeons should posses, they should have from the start.

*Surgeon could replace the Levée en masse who's characteristics should imo be distributed among the revolution militia/units.




I make surgeons too. I add that card (Master Surgeons) and I send it, because I find that surgeons heal much faster than priests and that field hospitals –yes, I build them too– help when you're building a forward base, in defending it and in making more surgeons. Could they use some improvement? Maybe, but I think they're already better than priests at what they do, so besides making them tougher –not that they're that fragile to begin with– I don't think there's anything I'd add to them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
roy1012
Infantry Officer
Infantry Officer


Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 1279
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:22 pm    Post subject:

I've seen pros put priests in front of their army. Their resistance and high hp can take the damage while long ranged units take minimal casualties.
_________________
Roy1012

Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/RoySOTR

Feel free to add me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> NE Forum All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group | Page design by Tilanus Commodor & michfrm.