Spicing up the HC cards - questions

 
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Pawelec_POLAND
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:59 pm    Post subject: Spicing up the HC cards - questions

Recently some ideas to spice up the HC mechanics came to my mind and they brought many questions:

1. Could the deck card limit be increased somehow? I often play games lasting long enough for the players to run out of HC cards. I'd also like to introduce more tech-like cards instead of unit shipments but with limited amount of cards they are less attractive to be chosen.

2. Is it possible to make HC cards act as if they were played before the game started? This would make it possible to create selectable permanent/starting boni at the expense of limited deck size, e.g. starting with a wagon of some type, getting permanent resource collecting bonus etc.

3. Could the techs researched in-game add cards to players' decks for the time of the game? I can imagine some fancy native stuff here.
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roy1012
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:27 pm    Post subject:

25 is a nice number for the cards. It makes you have to worry about which cards you are adding to your deck, it makes you have to actually strategize. You have to make extra decks for different situations like a water map and have to use cards sparingly, I think the number is fine. If you want to use cards after you've sent all your shipments, then get stuff from the university or have an unlimited card (like the unlimited natives card)

I don't understand your section proposition. Why not just send the card, or else you could just choose the bonuses and remove the deck entirely. Decks are a huge, fun step up from aoe2 and I think that it really helps the game be a better game, it makes sense since you get shipments slowly but surely.

As for your third point, it could work, but I'm not sure.
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Pawelec_POLAND
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:16 pm    Post subject:

roy1012 wrote:
I don't understand your section proposition.
I don't want all the cards to be played from the beginning, just some of them. The fact is I got in touch with AoE3 fans at my university and we're thinking about total conversion mod. Unique HC (we've decided to rename it to Capital, because it's shorter) concepts are one of our ideas.

The one we've been thinking about is:

All technologies from your deck are shipped from your Capital immediately and for free when the corresponding age is reached. However, all the other shipments need more XP.

This could as well be a HC card or a tech instead of a civ bonus.


XP needed to get a shipment is an important thing in our plan. One of the civs is intended to get shipments twice as often as all the other civs with all the cards being at least 2x but with most of them giving half of the usual profit (2 villagers instead of 4, 5% bonus instead of 10% etc.; for the Fort and Factory the second card is not present - this means more cards can be added to the deck while still getting 2 wagons in total).
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roy1012
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:44 am    Post subject:

You have real life friends that play AoEIII, or any games you play for that matter?

Oh, to be in your shoes.

I don't know, your suggestions seem kind of counter productive. Why bother reinventing the wheel when its already fine right now? Most people like how the Home City it set up now, and the 0.001% who don't are people who are hardcore aoe2 fans who hate aoe3.

I don't think that its broken, so don't try to fix it. You have some good insight but it would be a lot of effort to change something that doesn't need change.
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Pawelec_POLAND
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:38 pm    Post subject:

roy, I see you completely don't get I want to do. I don't want to replace or reinvent the system, but to expand it. The HC cards in their current form will stay and new ones will appear, I'm not throwing the current shipments away because I like them and it would be incredibly hard to balance such change.

We've agreed that a class of cards with the card is sent immediately after reaching (blabla) Age would fit our plans, but we still haven't figured out whether it's possible to code such cards.
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roy1012
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:01 pm    Post subject:

No I get what you want to do. You want home city cards to be granted through different things such as Civ bonuses and aging up. But civs already have bonuses like that and there are already age up bonuses.
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Pawelec_POLAND
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:40 am    Post subject:

Making theories about how much would these ideas change the game is pointless as long as we don't know if they are possible. We haven't found a way to code them so far.

What we can do and plan to implement are HC cards enabling techs/units. We're trying to get a card work as a politician (with the choice window), I think we're close to finding a solution.
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roy1012
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:22 pm    Post subject:

Why not just leave the politician thing to aging up? Why get the home city involved at all?
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Pawelec_POLAND
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:14 pm    Post subject:

Why are you so full of prejudice? I'd like to discuss the technical aspects, not whether their implementation is a good idea or not because to discuss such matters the idea must be possible to implement first.

We're testing the HC politician and some limitations seem to exist as we cannot get everything work as we planned. I'll report as soon as we get a working solution.
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Makedonia
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:06 am    Post subject:

Don't know if right forum to do this, but is it possible to win an AOE3 match without HC shipments?
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caveman909
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:29 am    Post subject:

Makedonia wrote:
Don't know if right forum to do this, but is it possible to win an AOE3 match without HC shipments?

Sure. I remember players challenging lower skilled to beat them when they had a 0 card deck. Cards dont make everything, but it surely simplifies your strategies Razz
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Pawelec_POLAND
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:41 pm    Post subject:

That's why we're planning to spice up the cards - we want them to alter the way one plays the game, not just send units and resources. We're planning all single use cards to provide a permanent bonus along with the usual shipment, we'd also like the cards to unlock additional branches of the tech tree. The problem is keeping the things balanced, because in the early game shipments arrive rather infrequently, but the idea we're trying to pursue is making the shipments more frequent and less powerful, together with providing the players with more multiple/infinite use cards for the late game.

Two different areas we're going to revise are the trade routes and economic buildings.
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roy1012
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:06 pm    Post subject:

Pawelec_POLAND wrote:
Why are you so full of prejudice? I'd like to discuss the technical aspects, not whether their implementation is a good idea or not because to discuss such matters the idea must be possible to implement first.


I'm not "full of prejudice", I just don't like the idea. Sure, you could implement it, I don't think that would be a problem, I just don't think that it would be beneficial nor necessary.

Quote:
We're planning all single use cards to provide a permanent bonus along with the usual shipment, we'd also like the cards to unlock additional branches of the tech tree. The problem is keeping the things balanced, because in the early game shipments arrive rather infrequently, but the idea we're trying to pursue is making the shipments more frequent and less powerful, together with providing the players with more multiple/infinite use cards for the late game.


I don't get this. You first say that you want single use cards to get permanent bonuses, which would vastly strengthen the card. Then you say you want to make shipments more frequent and less powerful.

Also, you said early game shipments are infrequent, which isn't correct. Shipments actually are more frequent early game, the more shipments you get, the more XP they cost.

Also by giving more multiple/infinite use cards, it will make the card more powerful. As a British rusher, the 6 unlimited longbowmen on NE is much much much much much MUCH more powerful than the 6 longbowmen on TAD.

A lot of your ideas are jumbled/unorganized and I'm not quite grasping a) the functionality of the ideas and b) the actual ideas themselves.
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Pawelec_POLAND
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:25 pm    Post subject:

You're right, you're not grasping them at all.

What's the result of allowing twice as many shipments together with making them 50% less powerful? Increase in flexibility, because of sending a shipment of 6 longbowmen you could send 3 longbowmen and 3 villagers after a while if in the course of the game you needed them more than another 3 longbowmen.

There are a lot of tweaks I'm not writing about, this was intended to be a technical thread. The mod is planned to be a total conversion focusing on the Renaissance, but given how many skilled and ambitious people are at my university we may end up making a game from scratch instead of modding AoE3.
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roy1012
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:26 pm    Post subject:

i understand what you want to do I just don't understand why. 3 longbowmen are useless, 1 villager in age 1 is useless. What do you want, half of a factory? You were mentioning earlier that you wanted bonuses to be granted when you age up yet now you talk about bonuses coming with troop cards? I don't get your train of thought pattern, if there is one.

Again, I'm sure the technicality is all there, and this might be possible, but I'm not a tech person. I just don't think you should waste your time on this idea.[/i]
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