Some things that you might want to add in Asia civs.
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The last Austriahungarian
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:29 pm    Post subject:

Orwell wrote:
Look the arquebus is the team's choice, I am fine with the current unit though no need to add work to a civ that is not really the scope of the mod

That whole 500 story still sounds anecdotal and you pointed out you're own massive flaw, we have the unit, the rattan shield, it is already in game!

About cannons...It has always seemed to me that China may have a lot of cannons but they are old fashioned and not that good, can we agree with that?


I understand if the team wants to keep the arquebusier but you could at least give them more manchu armor Razz

Also i have been reading some rhings that i wrote and i missed some CRUCIAL parts sorry. First this china artilery boom was from the 1660s to the 1710sish. Actually from 1740-1750 onward the artilery pieces got worse. You are right about the fact that chinese canons were numerous but most part not as good as other artilery. They still had a faster rate of fire tought in the manchu ELITE banners compared to european ones ( until the 1730ish).

Now that i read better( i was to excited) i think you could still add the small canon by each banner army. It could be kinda like the a uhlan artilery Razz
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roy1012
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:55 pm    Post subject:

India has sepoys, japan has ashigaru. Why do we need a common asian musketeer?
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Orwell
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:36 am    Post subject:

Agreed! Cultural shared units always come off as bland and generally generic, aim for diversity not for genericness.

And on cannons, ok so the way I imagine is maybe each infantry banner army gets a free cannon but it is a fast firing one that is even weaker then the falconet, even then that seems like the balance may be tricky.
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The last Austriahungarian
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:14 am    Post subject:

Orwell wrote:
Agreed! Cultural shared units always come off as bland and generally generic, aim for diversity not for genericness.

And on cannons, ok so the way I imagine is maybe each infantry banner army gets a free cannon but it is a fast firing one that is even weaker then the falconet, even then that seems like the balance may be tricky.


It could be a 2 pop canon (so banner armies would cost 7 pop). It could also come with shipments:D

But to make it balanced we could make it like the uhlan: it would have the equivalent of 1.5/5 of hp of falconet( or maybe just long range resistance) but with the faster rate of fire.
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The last Austriahungarian
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:46 pm    Post subject:

Orwell wrote:
Agreed! Cultural shared units always come off as bland and generally generic, aim for diversity not for genericness.

And on cannons, ok so the way I imagine is maybe each infantry banner army gets a free cannon but it is a fast firing one that is even weaker then the falconet, even then that seems like the balance may be tricky.


Also one more little things: you should replace the chukonu by the Archer ( manchus also were experts at archery).
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Zooasaurus
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:46 am    Post subject:

Not so for the qing. And also i think chu ko nu is more proper because it's unique to the Chinese culture and it's used from the warring states era up to the WW2
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Orwell
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:30 am    Post subject:

Again gotta agree with Zoo here.

IT"S THE BLOODY MULTIPLE ARROW CROSSBOW OMG CHU KO NU WAY YOU ARE TAKING THIS OUT!

In all seriousness, many games use that unit and again it is a cool Chinese unique and I definitely don't see a reason to take that cool unit and replace it with another bland archer
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The last Austriahungarian
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:33 am    Post subject:

Orwell wrote:
Again gotta agree with Zoo here.

IT"S THE BLOODY MULTIPLE ARROW CROSSBOW OMG CHU KO NU WAY YOU ARE TAKING THIS OUT!

In all seriousness, many games use that unit and again it is a cool Chinese unique and I definitely don't see a reason to take that cool unit and replace it with another bland archer


Yeah i also think that the archer is not as cool as 360 NOSCOPER BADASS MURICAN CHUCK KO NOIRIS.
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roy1012
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:50 am    Post subject:

The chu ko nu is a classic AoE unit I don't see why they should take it out.
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Zooasaurus
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:14 pm    Post subject:

What i do think needed change is the Mughal Civ (has been discused) and addition of cheap pikemen for Japanese. I think of Yari Ashigaru since it was widely used during the Sengoku Jidai
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Orwell
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:54 am    Post subject:

Quote:
What i do think needed change is the Mughal Civ (has been discused)


I am more then aware of these discussions myself and I do invite you to go to my thread on the matter.

Quote:
cheap pikemen for Japanese

This right here, this is great, this is needed, I hate using the Samurai, as the standard melee unit, give us a cheap spearmen please.
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Silmariel
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:13 am    Post subject:

Japan already has a cheap clubmen available at the consulate if you choose isolation or via the shogun.
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Orwell
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:58 pm    Post subject:

But that doesn't really make sense to me, it's not like clubs were anywhere near as popular as the spearman. So why a club man and not a spear man?
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:55 am    Post subject:

I'm short on time, so I'll just list my input:
  • More modern artillery ("European") for TAD civs is definitely something we are internally considering. It won't become a dominating element in these civs though. So Chinese will get gunpowder artillery, but it won't lead to it being omnipresent in every damn banner army. That'd just be ridiculous.
  • We do not consider any inventions, developments after 1815/25.
  • There'll be no generic Asian musketeer, instead we'll overhaul the current ranged infantrymen (Arquebusier, Sepoy, Ashigaru) with visuals and stats that are closer to their historical examples. All of them will have in common though the lack of anti-cav boni in melee (due to bayonets being uncommon) and instead be shifted to ranged attacks or outsourced to other units. These reworks will take place after NE 2.2.
  • For historical reasons Chu Ko Nus would certainly need to be removed or reworked, however, I'm agreeing with roy1012 here. They're sort of a evergreen unit in AoE and when other civs get xbows and lbows, why should Chinese not get them?

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Orwell
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:15 pm    Post subject:

Well I mean that's that then right? I mean basically all the arguments we have had thus far are basically answered in the above post so unless if anyone has any new suggestions I suppose this is done
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Sunreaver
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:46 pm    Post subject:

Niru Cavalry could replace those Keshiks
[Niru Cavalry]
Cavalry Captains of the manchu hunting parties. Expert cavalry archers that boost other cavalry speed
https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%BD%90%E9%A2%86

Do u find these useful,my friend works on these mod


Manchu Merc could need a model change it is currently a Mongol model[/img]
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