Are we not forgeting a important civ :P?
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The last Austriahungarian
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 5:17 pm    Post subject: Are we not forgeting a important civ :P?

While my Brazil propose wasnt`t exactly historical accurate (i didn`t know that NE would strict all civs up to 1815) I have been searching for new natives and cultures and I found out the history of India. I know that NE will add the Mughals into the game so why not add another India superpower and that not only was a superpower during the 18 century but also completely defeated the Mughals (in the 1680-1710 wars) that by that time were probably the richest nation on earth.
Also, they managed to defeat the english in the late 18 century, showing that they are a civilization capable of fighting against others superpowers in NE.

CIV summary:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/India_18th_century.JPG the empire at it`s height.

First, the Marathas should represent (initially) the overal feudal states that ruled south india and that fought the Mughals, the portuguese and the english, evolving to the Maratha confederacy.

The Marathas should be a defensive civ that uses of militia/skirmishing swordsman at the start of the game and powerful fortifications.

``The Marathas gave tremendous importance to Forts as they were their strongest defence against the marauding invaders. Due to the inherent hilly terrain of the Sahyadri range, most of their forts belonged to the ‘hill’ category. These forts protected the army and the wealth of the kings and housed virtually a village inside the fort. Some of them were also repaired ones from older dynasties.

they should probably have the strongest asset of defensive structures if we consider that during their rule there dozens of forts around the whole land, which were divided into 4 groups:

Hill Forts: These forts were constructed on the high hills and made from stone cut out from those very mountains. The high altitudes and the steep walls made these forts daunting for the enemy. In the vernacular Marathi language they were called as ‘Giri Durg’ (‘Giri’ means the mountain and ‘Durg’ is the term for a fort).They were considered the most reliable in comparison to land forts e.g Raigad,Rajgad,Purandar,Sinhagad,Pratapgad,Shivneri,Rajmachi etc

Land Forts: These forts were created on the plains. In Marathi they were called ‘Bhuikot’ (Durg).e.g Chakan fort,Bahadurgad,Solapur fort,Ahmednagar fort etc.

Sea Forts: These forts were created in the middle of the sea (at a shallow point with a solid foundation base) and protected by its vicious waves. In Marathi they were called ‘Jal Durg’ . ChShivaji was quick to realise the importance of sea forts. They provided a efficient base for controlling sea traffic and trade. e.g Janjeera (the fort of Janjeera was considered virtually impregnable and was held by the Siddis, enabling them to withstand the most extreme of enemy pressures) , Sindhudurg (built by Ch Shivaji) ,Padmadurg (built by Ch Sambhaji) , Khanderi , Underi etc.
(you should really check out the Janjiera one, is literaly a fortified island, and also pretty beautifull).

Forest Forts: These forts were created amidst a dense jungle, protected by the trees, the reptiles and wild animals. They were the ‘Vana Durg’.e.g Javali.

Human forts: human war formations , encampments often resembled forts. These were the ‘Nar durg’.

Barring the last which is a type of a field fortification, the rest are all of a permanent nature.

i will continue in the next post explaining their fearful swordsman that used techniques and weapons based on the Rajput wariors.
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THAT IS WHY HIS RETAINERS ENVY AND ADORE HIM, AND WHY THE FLAMES OF ASPIRATION, TO BE AS THE KING IS, CAN BURN WITHIN
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The last Austriahungarian
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 5:34 pm    Post subject: part 2

alt ought the Maratha used gunpowder like any other nation, they were especially know for their swordsmanship! During the Mughal invansions, skiled sowrdsman would make skirmishers against comboys and enemy batalions, quickly killing their oponents and runnig before reinforcements would come.
As the empire got stronger this skiled man were adapted to the open battlefields.
They used a really big variety of swords and weapons, here are some.
http://marathachronicles.blogspot.com.br/2011/05/medieval-weapons-of-marathas_24.html
https://photopilankar.wordpress.com/2015/03/11/shivaji-era-weapons/

Do you remember the aoe3 rajput? In the first link you can see the ``Katar``, which resembles the ``pata`` used by this guys in the game.

But, they were not only about swordsman. Their cavalry (including war elephants) were numerous. They also had many artilery (especialy light one) mahadji sindhia a general re-established empire glory and added light guns and camel cannons. They also had heavier one sbut these were more used in fortifications and ships.
An important part of their armie were the Pindari wariors (they must be added), in contrary to other soldiers they weren`t paid with $ but actually privileges. The Pindari - These were light cavalry, who rode around after the marathas armies looting and pillaging. They were used on the battlefield to harass the flanks. They were armed with cavalry swords, such as the Talwar, and some of the Maratha weapons such as the Pata cavalry sword.

Next post i will talk about their powerfull navy (that drifted away the imperialists dutch, portuguese and english, securing their freeedom) mostly thanks to a certain Kanhoji Angre.
_________________
A KING MUST BE GREEDIER!
A KING MUST LAUGH LOUDER!
A KING MUST BE MORE FURIOUS THAN EVERYONE ELSE!
HE MUST EXEMPLIFY THE EXTREME OF ALL THINGS, GOOD AND EVIL!
THAT IS WHY HIS RETAINERS ENVY AND ADORE HIM, AND WHY THE FLAMES OF ASPIRATION, TO BE AS THE KING IS, CAN BURN WITHIN
HIS PEOPLE!

I SHALL GRIEVE AND I SHALL WEEP, BUT I SHALL NEVER REGRET!
-Iskandar, king of conquerors.
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The last Austriahungarian
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 5:48 pm    Post subject:

Did I mentioned their spy network? Acording to a Indian friend i contacted they had a immense spy line (I am still trying to find resources and prove of that so nothing confirmed).

As i was saying, not only their sea forts were some of the best (to not say the best) in the world but they also had a strong navy. Thanks to Kanhoji Angre the navie was incredibly increased and new tactics and foreigners generals were added making it a challenge to the hungry colonial powers Dutch as the dutch, and the British. Their fleet was composed of frigates, galeys, Grabs and Gallivats. They also used capturated ships (why not) especialy the european ones. This powerfull navy alowed them to resist the british until the 19 century.
_________________
A KING MUST BE GREEDIER!
A KING MUST LAUGH LOUDER!
A KING MUST BE MORE FURIOUS THAN EVERYONE ELSE!
HE MUST EXEMPLIFY THE EXTREME OF ALL THINGS, GOOD AND EVIL!
THAT IS WHY HIS RETAINERS ENVY AND ADORE HIM, AND WHY THE FLAMES OF ASPIRATION, TO BE AS THE KING IS, CAN BURN WITHIN
HIS PEOPLE!

I SHALL GRIEVE AND I SHALL WEEP, BUT I SHALL NEVER REGRET!
-Iskandar, king of conquerors.
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The last Austriahungarian
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 5:50 pm    Post subject:

Usefull links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanhoji_Angre

https://photopilankar.wordpress.com/2015/03/11/shivaji-era-weapons/

http://marathachronicles.blogspot.com.br/2011/05/medieval-weapons-of-marathas_24.html

http://marathachronicles.blogspot.com.br/2011/03/forts-in-maharashtra.html
_________________
A KING MUST BE GREEDIER!
A KING MUST LAUGH LOUDER!
A KING MUST BE MORE FURIOUS THAN EVERYONE ELSE!
HE MUST EXEMPLIFY THE EXTREME OF ALL THINGS, GOOD AND EVIL!
THAT IS WHY HIS RETAINERS ENVY AND ADORE HIM, AND WHY THE FLAMES OF ASPIRATION, TO BE AS THE KING IS, CAN BURN WITHIN
HIS PEOPLE!

I SHALL GRIEVE AND I SHALL WEEP, BUT I SHALL NEVER REGRET!
-Iskandar, king of conquerors.
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UnstoppableStreletsy
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 8:31 pm    Post subject:

Good civ ideas, they would be a elaborate and fun civ
What culture would they be under asia or muslim?
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The last Austriahungarian
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 10:42 pm    Post subject:

UnstoppableStreletsy wrote:
Good civ ideas, they would be a elaborate and fun civ
What culture would they be under asia or muslim?


Well considering that they were Hindus....and that their arch enemie was the muslin mughal that declared jihad against them in order to convert /butcher them all and destroy thousands of years of indian history....they should be asians. Also many indians can feel ofended :O
_________________
A KING MUST BE GREEDIER!
A KING MUST LAUGH LOUDER!
A KING MUST BE MORE FURIOUS THAN EVERYONE ELSE!
HE MUST EXEMPLIFY THE EXTREME OF ALL THINGS, GOOD AND EVIL!
THAT IS WHY HIS RETAINERS ENVY AND ADORE HIM, AND WHY THE FLAMES OF ASPIRATION, TO BE AS THE KING IS, CAN BURN WITHIN
HIS PEOPLE!

I SHALL GRIEVE AND I SHALL WEEP, BUT I SHALL NEVER REGRET!
-Iskandar, king of conquerors.
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The last Austriahungarian
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 10:43 pm    Post subject:

UnstoppableStreletsy wrote:
Good civ ideas, they would be a elaborate and fun civ
What culture would they be under asia or muslim?


Well considering that they were Hindus....and that their arch enemie was the muslin mughal that declared jihad against them in order to convert /butcher them all and destroy thousands of years of indian history....they should be asians. Also many indians can feel ofended :O
_________________
A KING MUST BE GREEDIER!
A KING MUST LAUGH LOUDER!
A KING MUST BE MORE FURIOUS THAN EVERYONE ELSE!
HE MUST EXEMPLIFY THE EXTREME OF ALL THINGS, GOOD AND EVIL!
THAT IS WHY HIS RETAINERS ENVY AND ADORE HIM, AND WHY THE FLAMES OF ASPIRATION, TO BE AS THE KING IS, CAN BURN WITHIN
HIS PEOPLE!

I SHALL GRIEVE AND I SHALL WEEP, BUT I SHALL NEVER REGRET!
-Iskandar, king of conquerors.
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The last Austriahungarian
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 10:50 pm    Post subject:

UnstoppableStreletsy wrote:
Good civ ideas, they would be a elaborate and fun civ
What culture would they be under asia or muslim?


Considering that they were hindus and that they ressembled original medieval india, and that their arch enemies were the muslin mughals that tried to convert/kill them all and destroy thousands of years of their culture.....

Asia is better lol
_________________
A KING MUST BE GREEDIER!
A KING MUST LAUGH LOUDER!
A KING MUST BE MORE FURIOUS THAN EVERYONE ELSE!
HE MUST EXEMPLIFY THE EXTREME OF ALL THINGS, GOOD AND EVIL!
THAT IS WHY HIS RETAINERS ENVY AND ADORE HIM, AND WHY THE FLAMES OF ASPIRATION, TO BE AS THE KING IS, CAN BURN WITHIN
HIS PEOPLE!

I SHALL GRIEVE AND I SHALL WEEP, BUT I SHALL NEVER REGRET!
-Iskandar, king of conquerors.
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UnstoppableStreletsy
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 12:31 am    Post subject:

In that case I propose a new civ or native settlement to ne. We should have a seven-eleven convenience store civ.
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 12:45 am    Post subject:

It was already talked upon in India discussion post
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The last Austriahungarian
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 12:54 am    Post subject:

UnstoppableStreletsy wrote:
In that case I propose a new civ or native settlement to ne. We should have a seven-eleven convenience store civ.


XD oh my god. Hueheueheheueyeyeyeheyheueheuheuehehd
_________________
A KING MUST BE GREEDIER!
A KING MUST LAUGH LOUDER!
A KING MUST BE MORE FURIOUS THAN EVERYONE ELSE!
HE MUST EXEMPLIFY THE EXTREME OF ALL THINGS, GOOD AND EVIL!
THAT IS WHY HIS RETAINERS ENVY AND ADORE HIM, AND WHY THE FLAMES OF ASPIRATION, TO BE AS THE KING IS, CAN BURN WITHIN
HIS PEOPLE!

I SHALL GRIEVE AND I SHALL WEEP, BUT I SHALL NEVER REGRET!
-Iskandar, king of conquerors.
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Firestorm
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 1:15 am    Post subject:

@the last autriahungarian
There's no final decision yet if there will be a single Indian state or two. Actually the entire team is focused mainly on European civilizations and the ones added by NE (including the new civilization, the Danes). This will be NE 2.2 but certainly there will be future versions, which will include Persia and the re-work of TAD civilizations. So you are still in time to make a civilization outline on the Maratha. Remember they need a roster of military units, civilian units and their boni. Don't worry about culture things (muslim or asian) cuz this is not WoL. Devil If you make a good research and outline, PERHAPS the civilization might be included in a future version. Believe me, I'm telling you this for personal XP Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 3:22 am    Post subject:

The last Austriahungarian wrote:
their arch enemies were the muslin mughals that tried to convert/kill them all and destroy thousands of years of their culture.....

You could blame Aurangzeb for that. They were getting along well before that great adshole comes in
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The last Austriahungarian
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 6:20 pm    Post subject:

Firestorm wrote:
@the last autriahungarian
There's no final decision yet if there will be a single Indian state or two. Actually the entire team is focused mainly on European civilizations and the ones added by NE (including the new civilization, the Danes). This will be NE 2.2 but certainly there will be future versions, which will include Persia and the re-work of TAD civilizations. So you are still in time to make a civilization outline on the Maratha. Remember they need a roster of military units, civilian units and their boni. Don't worry about culture things (muslim or asian) cuz this is not WoL. Devil If you make a good research and outline, PERHAPS the civilization might be included in a future version. Believe me, I'm telling you this for personal XP Mr. Green




Maratha empire.

marathas flag https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Flag_of_the_Maratha_Empire.svg/2000px-Flag_of_the_Maratha_Empire.svg.png

Possible leaders:
-Nana Phadnavis, great statist, keep theempire free from the English.
-Ramchandra Pant: Leader of the empire in the Mughal invasions. Great military leader.
(quickly style mod report 21 civ info)

The Marathas have probably the best map control due to the bonus related to the numerous (and powerful) fortifications they are allowed to build, they outstand defensively not only with their mighty buildings but also with the correct use of fast skirmishing swordsman’s, that can both be quickly trained for emergencies and for raiding thanks to a generous base attack + speed.

At the start of the game (first 2 ages) they will be dependent upon mostly infantry (good infantry to say) but by the 3 age their army will be mostly cavalry (including fast hussar type horses, camels and elephants). They are not the elite however. The infantry is. But overall you will have 2 to 1 or 1 to 1 in the favor of cavalry.

At the start of the game the Marathas will need to rely on more archaic units (such as archers and swordsman) and will have a lack of heavy siege. But as the games drags on, good contact with European powers and subsequent artillery foundries development will allow them to create powerful units such as Howitzers and even a line infantry type (Asianized).
They navy is not the best but is certainly good and improves with the help of Europeans and naval defenses.

Since they were the most populous kingdom of the region and represent the Asia, the extra villagers per shipment would fit well their defensive/booming early strategy. They miss skirmishers, cuiraissers.

UUs: Pindari (raiding, hussar), can also be a cav archers that evolves to a dragon but it must be mounted.

Rajput (I am still trying to find a correct name): Fast and spamable swordsman with loads of attack that is especially good for defending and raiding vilagers (they take care of units close and their buildings can take care of archers and arquebusiers).

barcha (spearmen), fast Indian soldier armed with a metal spear. Low hp but a lot of damage (I didn’t quite think of a better purpose for them but they should be at least a royal).

Bargir infantry: late musketeer with bad hand attack but high damage that is especially good against others musketeers. It`s especially vulnerable early to swordsman (and anything on mele in general but provides a great power if shooting.

Grabs (small ship)

Galivats (frigates)


Royal: Spearmen (Barcha), Swordsman (?), elephant (only 2 civs use them and certainly the marathas used more), fort (yes forts, you can use any of the names I gave)

Also here are some statements of English officers according to Maratha armie in the 19 centurie.
Duke of Wellington after defeating Marathas noted that Marathas though were poorly led by their Generals but their regular infantry and artillery matches the level of Europeans, he also warned other British officers from underestimating Marathas in battlefield. He cautioned one British general that: "You must never allow Maratha infantry to attack head on or in close hand to hand combat, as in that your army will cover itself with utter disgrace".[73] Even when Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington, became the Prime Minister of Britain, he held Maratha infantry in utmost respect, claiming it to be one of the best in world. However, at the same time he noticed the poor leadership of Maratha Generals, who were often responsible for their defeats.[73] Charles Metcalfe, one of the ablest of the British Officials in India and later acting Governor-General, wrote in 1806:
India contains no more than two great powers, British and Mahratta, and every other state acknowledges the influence of one or the other. Every inch that we recede will be occupied by them.[74][75]
Norman Gash says that the Maratha infantry was equal to that of British infantry.

Other cool link:miltaryhistory111.blogspot.com.br

like these?
Razz
_________________
A KING MUST BE GREEDIER!
A KING MUST LAUGH LOUDER!
A KING MUST BE MORE FURIOUS THAN EVERYONE ELSE!
HE MUST EXEMPLIFY THE EXTREME OF ALL THINGS, GOOD AND EVIL!
THAT IS WHY HIS RETAINERS ENVY AND ADORE HIM, AND WHY THE FLAMES OF ASPIRATION, TO BE AS THE KING IS, CAN BURN WITHIN
HIS PEOPLE!

I SHALL GRIEVE AND I SHALL WEEP, BUT I SHALL NEVER REGRET!
-Iskandar, king of conquerors.
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The last Austriahungarian
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 6:27 pm    Post subject:

Firestorm wrote:
@the last autriahungarian
There's no final decision yet if there will be a single Indian state or two. Actually the entire team is focused mainly on European civilizations and the ones added by NE (including the new civilization, the Danes). This will be NE 2.2 but certainly there will be future versions, which will include Persia and the re-work of TAD civilizations. So you are still in time to make a civilization outline on the Maratha. Remember they need a roster of military units, civilian units and their boni. Don't worry about culture things (muslim or asian) cuz this is not WoL. Devil If you make a good research and outline, PERHAPS the civilization might be included in a future version. Believe me, I'm telling you this for personal XP Mr. Green


Maratha empire:

Marathas start to dependent on their archaic and swordsman skirmishing units, but with their strong fortifications they can secure the map (and their survival) and develop a incredibly cost efective cav + modern artilery and even musketers on age IV.

UUs: Pindari (raiding, hussar), can also be a cav archers that evolves to a dragon but it must be mounted.
Rajput (I am still trying to find a correct name): swordsman
barcha (spearmen),
Bargir infantry:
Grabs (small ship)
Galivats (frigates)
Royal: Spearmen (Barcha), Swordsman (?), elephant (only 2 civs use them and certainly the marathas used more), forts (yes )
_________________
A KING MUST BE GREEDIER!
A KING MUST LAUGH LOUDER!
A KING MUST BE MORE FURIOUS THAN EVERYONE ELSE!
HE MUST EXEMPLIFY THE EXTREME OF ALL THINGS, GOOD AND EVIL!
THAT IS WHY HIS RETAINERS ENVY AND ADORE HIM, AND WHY THE FLAMES OF ASPIRATION, TO BE AS THE KING IS, CAN BURN WITHIN
HIS PEOPLE!

I SHALL GRIEVE AND I SHALL WEEP, BUT I SHALL NEVER REGRET!
-Iskandar, king of conquerors.
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warpoint
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 11:15 am    Post subject:

The last Austriahungarian wrote:
Did I mentioned their spy network? Acording to a Indian friend i contacted they had a immense spy line (I am still trying to find resources and prove of that so nothing confirmed).
.


if you want to know about maratha spy network you must read about Bahirji Naik shivaji spy commander {who saved shivaji many time }

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahirji_Naik
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