Mughal Maratha UNITS short intro and some facts
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The last Austriahungarian
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:02 am    Post subject:

okay new (updatet list)

Sepoys, gurkas: european native armies, no place on decan factions.

Rajput: Social class, many types of troops, high hp ones. Both Maratha and Mughaul can send them. Some people sugested them to be natives.

Mahout lancer:Marathas and Mughauls used elephants with lances.

Zamburack: it was a artilery unit not a light cav, and is more of a Mughaul thing.

Canon elephant, Elephant gunner: Technicaly there were elephants using small pieces in a zamburack style they were used to maximize the charge and NOT to be dependant on hit and run like a cav archer or a dragon! Anyway the ingame unit doesnt work BUT there could be a card that add to Maratha and Mughaul elephants a kinda of slow range high recharfe weapon (dont know if possible).

Urumi: Is a weapon Razz. Martha used them, not mughauls.

Flail elephant: indian states ( including marathas and mughaul) used eles to put gates down but there is little evidence to the flail. Also some european sepoy states also employed them sometimes.

Sowar: Marathas and Mughauls had sowars however they used many weapons....

jat lancer:
Confused



also guys check this guy http://www.gunhistoryindia.com/2015/01/maharana-pratap-reasons-why-dheer-bai.html
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warpoint
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:13 am    Post subject:

Quote:
"The last Austriahungarian"]okay new (updatet list)


Quote:
Sepoys, gurkas: european native armies, no place on decan factions.

hold sepoy is incorrect name of sipahi no indian kingdom call sepoy they call sipahi (sipahi is turkish persian urdu term for cav ) during British.... domination sipahi became sepoy{ due to Europeans wrong pronunciation "sepoy rises http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sepoy } http://asianhistory.about.com/od/glossaryps/g/What-Is-A-Sepoy.htm that site contain many info about sipahi or wrong name "sepoy" . well if anybody consider sepoy a range unit then maratha also had this in late period {late 18} and mughals also had this
if real thing"sipahi" a cav considered then mughal only had this
Quote:
Rajput: Social class, many types of troops, high hp ones. Both Maratha and Mughaul can send them. Some people sugested them to be natives.

well mughals maratha situation was same both had rajputs allies and enemies so both benefited by rajputs but martha get rajputs in late 17
Quote:
Mahout lancer:Marathas and Mughauls used elephants with lances

yes

Quote:
Zamburack: it was a artilery unit not a light cav, and is more of a Mughaul thing.

absolutely
Quote:
Canon elephant, Elephant gunner: Technicaly there were elephants using small pieces in a zamburack style they were used to maximize the charge and NOT to be dependant on hit and run like a cav archer or a dragon! Anyway the ingame unit doesnt work BUT there could be a card that add to Maratha and Mughaul elephants a kinda of slow range high recharfe weapon (dont know if possible).

Wink
Quote:
Urumi: Is a weapon Razz. Martha used them, not mughauls.

hmm
Quote:
Flail elephant: indian states ( including marathas and mughaul) used eles to put gates down but there is little evidence to the flail. Also some european sepoy states also employed them sometimes.

hmm



Quote:
Sowar: Marathas and Mughauls had sowars however they used many weapons....
sowar also incorrect sowar was not camel unite
it was horse unite and Europeans especially British used this for "sipahi" horseman
Sowar, meaning "the one who rides" in Persian, was originally a rank during the Mughal, Maratha period.

Quote:
jat lancer: Confused
no mughal and maratha both had not such kinda of regiment or unite however jatts also recruited by both but they had no separate identity just simple solider .jatts was the separate cast like a rajputs but they don't get status like rajputs in both army .
basically jatts had own kingdom .
in British india they get a especial status "jat lancer" belong to British india



Quote:
also guys check this guy http://www.gunhistoryindia.com/2015/01/maharana-pratap-reasons-why-dheer-bai.html
Wink[/quote]
two units evidence


current india is fantasy and based on brtish india so if we try to fit that india with NE TIME LINE THEN THIS IS TOOO TERRIBLE BECAUSE CURRENT INDIA LOOKS LIKE BRTISH INDIA 19THCENTURY FAR FROM REALITY AND THEY DON'T MATCH WITH REALITY LIKE MICROSOFT CHOOSES AKBAR ? GORKHA? AKBAR HAD NO CANNONS? ...................TOO MANY INCORRECT THINGS SEPOY FOR AKBAR EMPIRE?

SO SPLIT INDIA HAD STRONG BASE
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The last Austriahungarian
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:20 am    Post subject:

How should we proceed with the sowar them for both maratha and mughau? -._.-

So maratha had sepoys in late 18 century? Were they in signigicant numbers? Why did they used them?

Also: in that cse jat lancer is a native? Razz

(ne should really make more maps on india...).

And sorry for your pc virus Sad
_________________
A KING MUST BE GREEDIER!
A KING MUST LAUGH LOUDER!
A KING MUST BE MORE FURIOUS THAN EVERYONE ELSE!
HE MUST EXEMPLIFY THE EXTREME OF ALL THINGS, GOOD AND EVIL!
THAT IS WHY HIS RETAINERS ENVY AND ADORE HIM, AND WHY THE FLAMES OF ASPIRATION, TO BE AS THE KING IS, CAN BURN WITHIN
HIS PEOPLE!

I SHALL GRIEVE AND I SHALL WEEP, BUT I SHALL NEVER REGRET!
-Iskandar, king of conquerors.
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warpoint
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:27 pm    Post subject:

The last Austriahungarian wrote:
How should we proceed with the sowar them for both maratha and mughau? -._.-

So maratha had sepoys in late 18 century? Were they in signigicant numbers? Why did they used them?

Also: in that cse jat lancer is a native? Razz

(ne should really make more maps on india...).

And sorry for your pc virus Sad




well sowar savvar and ghudsavvar , "sowar" is English word for horse cav google translator also agreed . then i researched
answer is Arrow
again "sowar" a camel unit is belong to brtish india not mughals and maratha sowar a horseman belong to mughal and maratha

both maratha and mughals had{ sowar .........}and they used
so there is no problem both get that
i think there is need to consult Tilanus Commodor....other is they agree to add sowar as a horseman and add a new unit camel rider or not
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sowar Smile


yes maratha had also sepoy in 18th century battle of patan{1790} is very good example . this going to third musket unit for bothin late game
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Patan
i think sepoy add credit goes to de boieng who start carrier as British officer then joined maratha he raised sepoy for maratha before de boeing many other European officer also work for maratha but they not raised sepoy for maratha . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beno%C3%AEt_de_Boigne Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:08 pm    Post subject:

So maybe there could be a carf like: Boigne training, your gardi musketeers become sepoys them? Or maybe a age 4 shipment bring those sepoys. We cant have 3 musketeers you see. Thanks for sharing this carachter, he is certainly a important figure in India. Wink
_________________
A KING MUST BE GREEDIER!
A KING MUST LAUGH LOUDER!
A KING MUST BE MORE FURIOUS THAN EVERYONE ELSE!
HE MUST EXEMPLIFY THE EXTREME OF ALL THINGS, GOOD AND EVIL!
THAT IS WHY HIS RETAINERS ENVY AND ADORE HIM, AND WHY THE FLAMES OF ASPIRATION, TO BE AS THE KING IS, CAN BURN WITHIN
HIS PEOPLE!

I SHALL GRIEVE AND I SHALL WEEP, BUT I SHALL NEVER REGRET!
-Iskandar, king of conquerors.
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warpoint
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:15 am    Post subject:

The last Austriahungarian wrote:
So maybe there could be a carf like: Boigne training, your gardi musketeers become sepoys them? Or maybe a age 4 shipment bring those sepoys. We cant have 3 musketeers you see. Thanks for sharing this carachter, he is certainly a important figure in India. Wink

strong possibility gardi musketeers became sepoy .
i jut noted bargir infantry, gardi, sepoy then i say 3 well i agree gardi became sepoy through possible methods
1 through darbar research "appointment of European officer " gardi became sepoy
2 through card shipment
3 may be as you say HC UNITS
Well gardi musketeers
some historical base
https://books.google.co.in/books?id=FIIQhuAOGaIC&pg=PA66&dq=gardi+musketeers#v=onepage&q=gardi%20musketeers&f=false
https://books.google.co.in/books?id=kojXAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA114&dq=gardi+musketeers&hl#v=onepage&q=gardi%20musketeers&f=false Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:37 pm    Post subject:

But the sepoya you mentioned are only these 5 thousand by Boigne? :/ As important as they were there ia to little of them xD if is that way they will need to be card.

Waiting answer
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A KING MUST BE GREEDIER!
A KING MUST LAUGH LOUDER!
A KING MUST BE MORE FURIOUS THAN EVERYONE ELSE!
HE MUST EXEMPLIFY THE EXTREME OF ALL THINGS, GOOD AND EVIL!
THAT IS WHY HIS RETAINERS ENVY AND ADORE HIM, AND WHY THE FLAMES OF ASPIRATION, TO BE AS THE KING IS, CAN BURN WITHIN
HIS PEOPLE!

I SHALL GRIEVE AND I SHALL WEEP, BUT I SHALL NEVER REGRET!
-Iskandar, king of conquerors.
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warpoint
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:56 am    Post subject:

The last Austriahungarian wrote:
But the sepoya you mentioned are only these 5 thousand by Boigne? :/ As important as they were there ia to little of them xD if is that way they will need to be card.

Waiting answer

i have doubt
sepoy played big role in mahadji sindhia campaign{one battalion also under command of mahadji }
this battle and and that book is base of my doubt they claimed maratha army had 10000 veterans infantry ? = sepoy or any other infantry? .https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Merta#cite_ref-Sarkar_23_1-1
https://books.google.co.in/books?id=_XZh4CF1m2wC&pg=PA253&lpg=PA253&dq=sepoy+battalion+of+mahadji+sindhia#v=snippet&q=10000%20sepoy&f=false

well if my doubt is not right than may be sepoy became hc unit like urmi but in age 5 or 4 unlimited shipment of sepoy like urmi in current{ASIAN DYNASTIES} india age 5 unlimited shipment card in age5 {obviously india was the 99%source of sepoy 1% belong to srilanka } Exclamation
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 6:26 pm    Post subject:

I have read this article you passed
De Boigne was just awesome.

His sepoys will be one of that game breaking cards for sure ( like what urumis are today). In age 4 there will surely be a ton of cards abd techs for marathas modernization.

Also which will be age 2 (i sad 1 but is 2) again? Mr. Green
_________________
A KING MUST BE GREEDIER!
A KING MUST LAUGH LOUDER!
A KING MUST BE MORE FURIOUS THAN EVERYONE ELSE!
HE MUST EXEMPLIFY THE EXTREME OF ALL THINGS, GOOD AND EVIL!
THAT IS WHY HIS RETAINERS ENVY AND ADORE HIM, AND WHY THE FLAMES OF ASPIRATION, TO BE AS THE KING IS, CAN BURN WITHIN
HIS PEOPLE!

I SHALL GRIEVE AND I SHALL WEEP, BUT I SHALL NEVER REGRET!
-Iskandar, king of conquerors.
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warpoint
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:39 am    Post subject:

The last Austriahungarian wrote:
I have read this article you passed
De Boigne was just awesome.

His sepoys will be one of that game breaking cards for sure ( like what urumis are today). In age 4 there will surely be a ton of cards abd techs for marathas modernization.

Also which will be age 2 (i sad 1 but is 2) again? Mr. Green

hey urumi is very ancient weapon and used since BC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urumi if we follow historical approach then maratha get urumi in age1 through home city Confused Hooray! Hooray! ^^
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:16 pm    Post subject:

is anything missing barracks stable forts artillery darbar towncenter temple .... Confused
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:39 pm    Post subject:

Cavalry wrote:
is anything missing barracks stable forts artillery darbar towncenter temple .... Confused


I think only end choosing the age that the 5 canons will apear...apart from that is always open tp change related to bonuses and or cards.

Edit: actually we need to finish the Dabar.
_________________
A KING MUST BE GREEDIER!
A KING MUST LAUGH LOUDER!
A KING MUST BE MORE FURIOUS THAN EVERYONE ELSE!
HE MUST EXEMPLIFY THE EXTREME OF ALL THINGS, GOOD AND EVIL!
THAT IS WHY HIS RETAINERS ENVY AND ADORE HIM, AND WHY THE FLAMES OF ASPIRATION, TO BE AS THE KING IS, CAN BURN WITHIN
HIS PEOPLE!

I SHALL GRIEVE AND I SHALL WEEP, BUT I SHALL NEVER REGRET!
-Iskandar, king of conquerors.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:38 am    Post subject:

The last Austriahungarian wrote:
Cavalry wrote:
is anything missing barracks stable forts artillery darbar towncenter temple .... Confused


I think only end choosing the age that the 5 canons will apear...apart from that is always open tp change related to bonuses and or cards.

Edit: actually we need to finish the Dabar.

well
1st redistribution of units with age
2nd redistribution of techs with age
somethings .....remained .
this is stupid!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:13 pm    Post subject: myopinion some important clarification and suggestion issue

first of all my opinion changed towards maratha and mughals . after reading three books deppply Teaching Grandpa and facing 3 exams {medieval india related } .


as editor of this topic i must clear my stand that
when i start this topic then i only noticed the time
period of the game and because of introduction of mughal i inspired to introduce maratha{because it is famous in india due to many reasons } .
that time i had no clue about complexity and different aspects of mod and mod making {i just thought this is like wol Rolling Eyes} .

Through this post i strongly clear that iam not supporter of any kind of so called or famous term "HINDU NATIONALISM OR OTHER SUCH KIND OF CRAP" unfortunately some members think that because of personal bias ... i suggested this topic and may be shoutbox and some posts projected the wrong image that I* project "HINDU INDIA". i am already aware that in india every ruler failed to impose his religion so there is no question rise about "one religion nation ".even mughal india is not muslim india because majority population was non islamic { there was good muslim population also}

now i agree that maratha COULD became revolutionary faction and in future my post related this topic about revolutionary faction maratha in this thread
{well maratha feature unit ….other stuff almost ready if team want as civilization they easily abstract useful things any time }

i have some issues regarding to Mughals and some suggestion
1 mughal kingdom not like other islamic kingdom why?
* in almost all Islamic kingdom ruler and majority public share same religion and culture like Turkish empire Iranian empire arab …….other but in the case of mughal india totally different rulers and big part public followed separate different culture and religion . some time they {mughal}act too tolerant and some time too tolerant . mughal was full of contradictions like Aurangzeb who destroyed many temples but that is the fact also he continued to confer land grants (jagirs) upon Hindu temples, such as the Someshwar Nath Mahadev temple in Allahabad, Jangum Badi Shiva temple in Banaras, Umanand temple in Gauhati, and numerous others.
*mughal not followed any fix sects like sunni shia......other some time they encourage suuni practice or some time they support shia....other
*mughal was one of the few kingdom who official announced to celebrate non islamic festivals .{however aurangzeb banned this in his regime but his predecessor akbar and jahangir celebrated hindu festivals}{shah jahan was semi orthodox }
SO I have
funny SUGGESTION IS THAT MUGHAL GET MOSQUE {MASJID} AGE1
TEMPLE AND SACRED FILED BECAME THE HC SHIPMENT & ATTACHED SACRED FIELD WITH TEMPEL {MANDIR} AGE2
{THAT MEANS MUGHAL SHALL GET MASJID AND GET TEMPEL BOTH IF SACRED FIELD ATTACHED WITH TEMPLE THEN TEMPLE JUSTIFY THE SACRED FIELD BOTH GET RELEVANCE AND OBVIOUSLY HISTORY ALSO FAVORED IT BECAUSE MUGHAL RULER ALSO CONTRIBUTED MONEY FOR BUILDING AND REPAIRING TEMPLES SO THEY GET TEMPLE ALSO AND DUE TO ATTACHMENT OF SCARED FIELD WITH TEMPLE SCARED FILED ALSO REMAIN SAFE OTHER WISE SACRED FIELD FOR MUGHAL NOT SUIT {FOR MUGHAL COW WAS NOT SCARED BUT FOR BIG PART OF PUBLIC COWS WAS SCARED }.

MASJID SHALL BECAME A NORMAL SOURCE OF MERCENARIES AND HAKIM MAWALAWI .
DUE TO ATTACHMENT SCARED FIELD WITH TEMPLE BECAME THE SOURCE OF XP AND I ADD TINY FOOD PRODUCTION{ COW WAS IS PRIMARY SOURCE OF MILK IN INDIA }
ALSO PLAYER NEED TO CHOSSES BETWEEN XP OR FOOD . BUT TEMPEL NOT BECAME SOURCE OF MERCENARIES SO MASJID NOT LOSSES HIS IMPORTANCE AND MANDIR {temple} AND SCARED FILED REMAIN SAVED
->wonder system -- current india's only two wonder belong to mughals it has some alternative option to solve this problem
1 making new wonder Arrow not easy
2 removing wonder system-> leads disastrous result india lose his trademark or landmark
so i suggest
3*removing wonder system without removing wonder Arrow imean wounder {that 2 wonder }sifted to "durbar" {may be every body already aware about "durbar" } durbar provide wonder carts who transform into wounder{ taj and red fort } and provide abilities . name " shahi durbar was the term for imperial court "and obviously this was center of power ..politics ....everything.
well karani mata building became sahi durbar with some changes {tiny re design } or
4* wonders could became hc card Arrow may be boring


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:55 pm    Post subject:

So what you are saying is that we aproaching mughauls wrong?

Yeah we need more wonder for mughausl.

And I dont think is really a bad idea to make wonder sendable from hc. Like a fort, is not op. I mean a agra<normal fort. It could cost too.

The fact tought is: Can a mod that cals itself historical accurate use of wonders? As far as i like them in game we are a colony and something like the ONLY taja mahal sudenly in yucatan is weird lol
_________________
A KING MUST BE GREEDIER!
A KING MUST LAUGH LOUDER!
A KING MUST BE MORE FURIOUS THAN EVERYONE ELSE!
HE MUST EXEMPLIFY THE EXTREME OF ALL THINGS, GOOD AND EVIL!
THAT IS WHY HIS RETAINERS ENVY AND ADORE HIM, AND WHY THE FLAMES OF ASPIRATION, TO BE AS THE KING IS, CAN BURN WITHIN
HIS PEOPLE!

I SHALL GRIEVE AND I SHALL WEEP, BUT I SHALL NEVER REGRET!
-Iskandar, king of conquerors.
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warpoint
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:48 am    Post subject:

Quote:
The last Austriahungarian"


Quote:
So what you are saying is that we aproaching mughauls wrong

absolutely not mughal ruler was not supporter of hindus they just used hindu alliance to maintain his rule only two king {akbar jahagir }maintain religious harmony but this peaceful harmony ended by sha jahan .....other {about auanzgeb he was totally frustrated bankrupt ruler so they have no choice except loot according to historian he did for political reason those temples became the center of politics but critics rejected this they said that many muslim ruler also revolted then why they not destroyed madarsa and masjids so there is too much debate happening }
exactly that era{sha jhan }anti mughal feeling raised hindu sikh powers started his bloody revolts and campaign .
due to mughals brutal attack demolition of temples restoration of religious taxes mughal harmony prestige doomed and his good works lost in the darkness*
that is clear that that is not religious war such like crusade or jihad because not only hindu or sikh kingdom started revolted many muslim kingdom also revolted they get success or not it was another thing .


BUT MARATHA BECAME SUPERMAN AND DUE TO MARATHA RESISTANCE MUGHAL LOST HIs SHARPNESS AND MIGHT
AS CIVILIZATION MARATHA SUIT AND SPLIT INDIA IS INTERESTING BUT DUE TO MANY REASONS MOD THEME ..TIME ..RESOURCE ....OTHER MAY BE IN THIS MOD MARATHA SUIT AS REVOLUTIONARY FACTION MORE .
IF ADDED AS CIVILIZATION WONDERFUL OR AS A REVOLUTIONARY FACTION JUST GOOD . AS A REVOLUTIONARY FACTION ITS SECURING THE MARATHA HISTORY REPRESENTATION AND MAY BE OTHER MODDERS IN FUTURE USE IDEA.
Quote:
IDEAS ONLY NEED PLATFORM OR SOURCE ITS MAKES A WAY HIMSELF .
i don't know who told this Topmodel


Quote:
Yeah we need more wonder for mughausl.

choosing one is too difficult
Quote:
And I dont think is really a bad idea to make wonder sendable from hc. Like a fort, is not op. I mean a agra<normal fort. It could cost too

that is possible solution
Quote:
The fact tought is: Can a mod that cals itself historical accurate use of wonders? As far as i like them in game we are a colony and something like the ONLY taja mahal sudenly in yucatan is weird lol


it was not fault of modder real culprit was microsoft i dont't know why they chooses dynasties word for 1857 dying india and why chinese get almost imaginary campaign there is no clear historical evidence which prove that chinese visited america china have ming& quing fabulous campaign india offcourse have too many historical campaign
and why they have garbage artillery .
other hand dammm long amrican black family . Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green Topmodel Topmodel Topmodel Topmodel Devil
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