Modding Report #27 - Homecity trips
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Zooasaurus
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:05 am    Post subject:

Firestorm wrote:
I will try to persuade Tilanus to spoil something more after Germany wins the European cup Wink

Unfortunately, there will be no spoils Sad

The last Austriahungarian wrote:
Major questions: WHEN WILL YOU SPLIT IND....

I laughed so hard when seeing this lol

Tilanus wrote:
I have indeed thought about "rolling back" France to Bourbon France, because currently France is mainly Napoleonic France which - in regards to the mod title - makes a lot of sense, but is a bit sad as well.

Tbh i prefer The French Old Monarchy because the timeline of this mod, but that'll ruin everything you've done i guess

Also, at first i'm kinda sad that India split got more attention than this post in the first place Mr. Green
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The last Austriahungarian
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:56 pm    Post subject:

Zooasaurus wrote:


The last Austriahungarian wrote:
Major questions: WHEN WILL YOU SPLIT IND....

I laughed so hard when seeing this lol


It was the intention:P

But the dream never dies !!!


Zooasaurus wrote:
i prefer The French Old Monarchy because the timeline of this mod, but that'll ruin everything you've done i guess

Also, at first i'm kinda sad that India split got more attention than this post in the first place Mr. Green


Maybe france could be bourbon until the 5 age when it would be conpletely diferent tha any other nation!(napoleonic france!).
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Sindir
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Modding Report #27 - Homecity trips

Thanks so much for finally releasing new informations Tilanus!
But one question bothers me...

Tilanus Commodor wrote:



Sweden has changed quite a lot. All that OP stuff is gone and the remnants of Ensemble Studios' original plan to make a Swedish civ (Swedish Fusiliers, Finnish Hackapells) were now fully merged into the NE Swedes.


So am i still able to build my beloved swedish Fusiliers? And when the drabant fused with the hackapell, what will happen with the "northern warrior"-tech?
Cause this unit was my favorit, even in the normal AoE3

Firestorm wrote:

I will try to persuade Tilanus to spoil something more after Germany wins the European cup Wink


So sadly this will not be befor 2020 :/
Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad ....


Ivenend wrote:
Spoiler:


What is the unit right to the black rider?

Tilanus Commodor wrote:

But Bavarians and Goons.

What are the Goons?[/spoiler]


I dont know if you are serious here, but you answered your question by yourself. This unit is/are the goons.
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Silmariel
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:09 pm    Post subject:

I guess Swedish fusiliers have been merged with this new Carolean unit.

The unit next to the black rider is the Hessian Jäger in new uniform.
Goons is short for dragoons.
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Sindir
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:22 pm    Post subject:

oh my mistake, sorry
mistaked goons with Geese.. sorry Mr. Green
(the picture is so green and so fitting with irish xD )

If the caroleans replace the swedish Fusiliers it would be really cruel...
This nice models cant be unused Crying or Very sad
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:05 pm    Post subject:

When I was checking if this tricorner-icon appeared only two times (indeed, it does) which is certainly not too often I noticed a few more oddities.

All vanilla-civs have this 1 falconet-shipment in age III-which is honestly one of the worst shipments available as you can also ship 1000 resources in crates (while 1 falconet equals 500 res). So I think NE did a very good job with introducing the 1 falconet+foundrywagon shipment (as seen by Sweden, Poland etc; equals 800 res). Could we have this shipment for all Europeans?

Somewhat similar: Could we have a single shipment that grants the benefits of Advanced Agriculture/Advanced Mills/Advanced Plantations/Landgrabbing for all European civs? That means plantations available from age I, cost reduction and either reduced building time or more HP. This would also free up some space in the HCs.

For Swiss the TEAM Cheaper Stables shipment has been moved to the military section, while it remains in the cathedral section for Austrians. Continuity?

The numbers on the snapphane-shipments are hardly readable.

Handcanoneers AND xbow in the Spanish HC. Really? I mean yes, Spain should have strength and variety in archaic units but is there real need for two archaic skirmishers? Maybe better to give Rodeleros some bonus against heavy/melee infantry as well. Same goes for Italy+Bersaglieri are outdated (they first appeared 1836).

I've to admit I dont like the new Otto icons at all (on the other hand, new polish icons for Pancerni and Winged Hussars are absolutely awesome. Kudos to the artist. They really fit in well with AoE's style). Maybe you can use some filter on them but they dont look cartoonish enough for AoE (not kidding here). I think nobody minded jans' white beards (I would vote remain here) which they actually share with their hussar friends. Also I think the Irregular-shipment would look better without the touch of blue there.

I've a second issue with Ottos though. As abus are now age III they lack some early game prowess (where they should be veeeeery strong, history wise). My idea would be to sacrifice the azap-unit. I mean, this unit was-next to Russian Poleaxemen-the most worthless NE addition. With cav archers becoming available in age II now, they become even more obsolete. But ditching one unit does not really increase their power, right? So what's the replacement?
Easy enough: bashi-bazouk! With oprichniks gone they could be the new scourge of every player's economy.
They would be cheap (~ 40 food and 40 wood) light infantry similar to coyote runners with low HP and decent melee attack with a good bonus against villagers as well as high siege attack. They are fully upgradeable but cannot be abused like oprichniks as Ottos simply lack infantry upgrades and traintime-decrease.
From an artistical point of view I would say-simply replace the azap's halberd with scimitar and buckler and let them now spread fear as irregulars. Otherwise I'm sure PredatoR's mod has some bashi-bazouk-unit/skins.

BTW: I know, there is a abus-shipment available in age II. Which is a nice touch. Generally I really like the idea of having a single shipment of units before they become available (goes for American Light Goons as well) that's a really cool feature. But I doubt it can compensate for a whole unit.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:25 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Handcanoneers AND xbow in the Spanish HC. Really? I mean yes, Spain should have strength and variety in archaic units but is there real need for two archaic skirmishers? Maybe better to give Rodeleros some bonus against heavy/melee infantry as well. Same goes for Italy+Bersaglieri are outdated (they first appeared 1836).

Spain's apogee was in the XVI and XVII centuries. So they have more variety of archaic units. Even if arquebusiers, crossbowmen and NE2.2 Rodeleros are all as counter-infantry units they all have their strength and weaknesses. Anyway I think that Tilanus could alter a bit the former two, especially the cost since both have the same at the moment (40F-40C). Bersaglieri are renamed to Cacciatori and have a new look now. Personally I love them as snipers they are Devil

Quote:
I think nobody minded jans' white beards (I would vote remain here) which they actually share with their hussar friends. Also I think the Irregular-shipment would look better without the touch of blue there.


No, the Janissary icon's change is a good thing. We are looking a new icon for the Hussar too, and many other units. Regarding the blue color of the Irregular's icon, I think this is more a matter of preferences. Not a real issue here.

Quote:
My idea would be to sacrifice the azap-unit. I mean, this unit was-next to Russian Poleaxemen-the most worthless NE addition. With cav archers becoming available in age II now, they become even more obsolete.


Why you see things so black and white. Other civilizations have Halberdier and Dragoon on Age3 and this doesn't mean we have to remove one of them. The Azap is the Ottoman unique Halberdier and since the Janissary stats will slightly change o NE2.2, the unit become more useful now. Also some players prefers to counter enemy cavalry by using specialized infantry, other prefers specialized cavalry. So NE like Vanilla offers different options in order to suit everybody's gameplay style.

Quote:
bashi-bazouk! With oprichniks gone they could be the new scourge of every player's economy.


Bashi-bouzuk will be introduced on NE 2.2 but they won't have the role you mentions. Quite the contrary Rolling Eyes

Silmariel, reading your long comments is always a pleasure. Hope to read more from you soon. BTW, can you help us by researching about the Koreans Razz lol Devil
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am    Post subject:

Tilanus, If the Danish overseas colonies warrants the 10 Sepoys card, then shouldn't the British, Dutch, Portuguese, and French (check my history here) all have the same card or an even larger shipment of Sepoys available?

Just an idea, but maybe an embassy-type building could be shipped instead that trains Sepoys? like a Trading Company Wagon?

Anyway, if Gurkhas are being removed from the Indian Civ then I guess Gurkha shipments could happen? at least for the British.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:04 am    Post subject:

Firestorm wrote:
Silmariel, reading your long comments is always a pleasure. Hope to read more from you soon. BTW, can you help us by researching about the Koreans Razz lol Devil

So... Koreans Confirmed? lol

Firestorm wrote:
Bashi-bouzuk will be introduced on NE 2.2 but they won't have the role you mentions. Quite the contrary

Lemme guess, Meatshield? Rolling Eyes

Silmariel wrote:
I think nobody minded jans' white beards (I would vote remain here)

I'm also curious why the icon got changed in the first place Confused
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TrollPrinceBilly XVII
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:41 am    Post subject:

Gurkas are being removed?

Does that mean were getting Nepalese natives? Or something for East India Company?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:52 am    Post subject:

Quote:
So... Koreans Confirmed?

This was a joke Razz

Quote:
Lemme guess, Meatshield?

No

Quote:
I'm also curious why the icon got changed in the first place

Cuz their white beard make them look like grandpas! Now they look young, strong and sinister Devil

Quote:
Gurkas are being removed?

No, they are just moved an age later! But don't expect many changes on the Indians on this version. After NE 2.2 is released we will turn our attention on the TAD civilizations, perhaps on the TWC as well. So for the moment we can't promise anything about them since there isn't a final decision yet!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:59 pm    Post subject:

The last Austriahungarian wrote:
ps: I asked why i was a continental marine because I used to be a 4 I (IIII). What hapened ? (just for curiosity Razz).

No, you used to have 5 stripes in yellow. After every 5 stripes the stripe count resets in another color.

caveman909 wrote:
It motivates me to finish those sounds you asked me for a looooooooooooooooong time ago lol

Oh, I think I've heard these 'promises' a few times already Razz

Pawelec_POLAND wrote:
2.2 is gonna be really interesting.

Indeed. Mr. Green

Pawelec_POLAND wrote:
How is doing an inaccurate thing better than not doing it? Confused

There's a difference between something being inaccurate and plain wrong. There's also a correlation between abstraction and inaccuracy.

Quote:
About Lithuanian taunts: they would be extremely inaccurate. Sorry to say that, but in the Commonwealth only the peasants spoke Lithuanian, Polish was used almost exclusively by soldiers, citizens and upper classes. [...] Besides: modern Lithuanian is way different from the Old Lithuanian spoken before 1850s, many vowels changed. Therefore, it would be heavily inaccurate for military units to use modern Lithuanian taunts, my recommendation is to abandon the idea.

While I'm not disagreeing with the other things you said I definitely disagree it would be extremely inaccurate to have units speaking modern Lithuanian. Even though Lithuania was polonised its native language did survive and for that you do need a critical mass of speakers. I wouldn't doubt that nobles and military officials would prefer Polish over Lithuanian, however, the common soldier, do you think he is that far from a peasant?

Old Lithuanian and modern Lithuanian whose emergence you seem to date with the 1850s are evidently not identical but neither can you really say that about any other language in AoE3/NE nor has it bothered a notable amount of people that units don't speak a historical version of their language. British, French, German, Polish, Italian - in a time span of roughly 300 years these languages have made so many variable transformations and gone through so many changes, please (and seriously), whom do you expect to restore, filter, intonate and have the capacity to interpret from this wild and dusty pool of languages? What exactly is 'the' German language 200, 300, 400 years ago?

Pawelec, with that level of linguistic pedantry you're clearly hitting the boundaries of the possible here. NE is not a revival project for historic languages and neither planning to become one. Nobody speaks Old Lithuanian anymore and only very few people (considering the already very small amount of Lithuanians in this world) could grasp and enjoy it. Finding speakers of modern Lithuanian is already hard enough, expecting them to recreate a dead prototype smooth and perfect with their tongues (and noses) is not only way too much to ask for but it's also completely pointless. There is no gain notable enough justifying the immense efforts necessary. The audience of NE is modern and alive, not historical and dead. You'd only appeal the linguists and the linguistically interested (who'd mainly be native speakers).

Also mind that the different language in AoE3 is actually just a nice ornamental detail as the major functional use of unit voices, providing an audio feedback for user-unit interactions, could already easily be achieved with diffuse and simplistic sound feedback as in AoE1.

Quote:
There really is no place for modern Lithuanian in the mod.

Speaking of consistent decisions here: I guess you'd also say that about all the other modern language versions in NE? Modern Polish out! Razz

Quote:
Including Lithuanian taunts while e.g. omitting the Florentines "because they were the Habsburgs' puppets" isn't consequent - the Florentines were much less of a Habsburg puppet than Lithuanian was spoken in 15-19th century Lithuania. Many things in the mod are done for the sake of accuracy but this decision is a huge step against it.

I can't follow your very own logic here. There are no Florentine-specific units in NE, but there are Lithuanian units. If there was a Florentine unit and I'd find someone recording sound samples in Florentine dialect then I'd most likely implement these sounds for the sake and benefit of adding to a civ's atmosphere. Now the Florentine dialect was documented obviously rather late in time. But hell, the people of today, the NE players who recognize the Florentine dialect, they'd be filled with joy to hear it, because they can relate. I'm utilizing languages to create an identification value in units and civs and by that trying to create an atmosphere that appeals to a certain audience. And unlike you I can live with some inaccuracy. It's not plain wrong to have units speaking Lithuanian and that's good enough for me considering the benefits of it.

On a final note, I really don't understand your vehemence opposing the idea to add more linguistic/cultural spice and variety to the Polish-Lithuanian civ with the addition of Lithuanian. After all Lithuania was the major partner of Poland in the PLC. Having units speaking Lithuanian is a nice way to illustrate and represent this fact. And I think you'd do better not trying to polonise Lithuanians again. You know, I've only considered giving a few units Lithuanian voices and you're completely overreacting by releasing a tirade on why Lithuanian should be avoided at all imaginable costs. That's SO sensitive! I'm sure Lithuanians will now thankfully love you even more..
Devil

Sindir wrote:
So am i still able to build my beloved swedish Fusiliers? And when the drabant fused with the hackapell, what will happen with the "northern warrior"-tech?
Cause this unit was my favorit, even in the normal AoE3

Well, Sweden can train Fusiliers, if you mean that. Mr. Green The Swedish Fusilier mercenary will be replaced by another mercenary with equal stats for historical reasons. Swedish Fusiliers were historically not mercenaries, just like Finnish Hackapells were not. These 2 units - and also the Italian Elmeti btw - only existed in AoE3 because ES looked for another way to feature Sweden and Italy than as a civ. So all I did was correcting this historical flaw in AoE3 and give the units back to its righteous owner.

You don't need to worry, the Irish Wild Geese merc replacing the Swedish Fusilier is as powerful and Sweden will maintain its usefulness in hiring mercenaries, but I think I'll find a less medieval name and icon for the "Northern Warriors" card.

Silmariel wrote:
I guess Swedish fusiliers have been merged with this new Carolean unit.

While I cannot fully confirm that, the units might feel similar. Their stats are quite different, but the outcome is actually somehow comparable. Smile

Sindir wrote:
If the caroleans replace the swedish Fusiliers it would be really cruel...
This nice models cant be unused Crying or Very sad

Oh, but the Caroleans look damn good as well Mr. Green And the model of the Swedish Fusilier will definitely be used for another, more generic unit. However, with a different texture.

Silmariel wrote:
All vanilla-civs have this 1 falconet-shipment in age III-which is honestly one of the worst shipments available as you can also ship 1000 resources in crates (while 1 falconet equals 500 res). So I think NE did a very good job with introducing the 1 falconet+foundrywagon shipment (as seen by Sweden, Poland etc; equals 800 res). Could we have this shipment for all Europeans?


Somewhat similar: Could we have a single shipment that grants the benefits of Advanced Agriculture/Advanced Mills/Advanced Plantations/Landgrabbing for all European civs? That means plantations available from age I, cost reduction and either reduced building time or more HP. This would also free up some space in the HCs.[/quote]
I like both ideas, though I'm not sure about combining all the eco cards you mentioned, that'd be too much, but 2 seem worth to try. Freeing up space in the HCs is not the primary idea, but just reducing redundancy.

Quote:
For Swiss the TEAM Cheaper Stables shipment has been moved to the military section, while it remains in the cathedral section for Austrians. Continuity?

Continuity in HCs is a myth. It didn't even exist in AoE3. There are hybrid cards which fit into multiple sections and I prefer themes over these way too generic technical criteria. I've always disliked a Cathedral offering things such as Fencing Schools, Fort wagons and other clearly militarily themed cards. It reveals the stupidity of over-correctness, because it leads to weird results. I like to arrange the HC cards in a way that makes certain features or combinations obvious. For Swiss team cards are obviously a thing. You wouldn't really show that in a HC where all team cards are scattered over the different sections, would you? Then again you do have your point of course, the eco cards dont really fit and I might (or might not) change their place again.

This is actually a good example for all the tiny detail work I have to do and most people don't recognize as a tedious thing. Coming up with alternative HC card arrangements is one them that requires fast and consequently error-prone decisions, because people want the new version asap. So thanks for pointing out, but just don't take everything with a pinch of salt. The basic meal is usually good enough. Wink

Quote:
The numbers on the snapphane-shipments are hardly readable.

I know, it's not my icon, but well, you can just hover them and go figure the description.

Quote:
Handcanoneers AND xbow in the Spanish HC. Really? I mean yes, Spain should have strength and variety in archaic units but is there real need for two archaic skirmishers? Maybe better to give Rodeleros some bonus against heavy/melee infantry as well. Same goes for Italy+Bersaglieri are outdated (they first appeared 1836).

I agree with Firestorm here, I'll care to make them (more) different from each other. At some point in development I discussed with JRussell the idea to have Spanish Crossbowmen only available from a Conquistadorish Church tech (kinda like Besteiros, only cooler), but for some reason I don't remember he didn't like the idea. Well, maybe I'll do it anyway? Mr. Green I'll have to check. As for Italy, I'm on your side. I also don't like the Cacciatori shipment.

Quote:
I've to admit I dont like the new Otto icons at all (on the other hand, new polish icons for Pancerni and Winged Hussars are absolutely awesome. Kudos to the artist. They really fit in well with AoE's style). Maybe you can use some filter on them but they dont look cartoonish enough for AoE (not kidding here). I think nobody minded jans' white beards (I would vote remain here) which they actually share with their hussar friends. Also I think the Irregular-shipment would look better without the touch of blue there.

Otto icons: I'm with Firestorm on this. The new Janissary icon looks much better and apart from that the only new icon is the Archer one, which is I think a lot pretter than those of comparable AoE3 units (Yumi, Longbow, Crossbow, .. ugh).
Polish icons: Thanks for the compliment. Smile
Irregulars: Yea, could be brown indeed, but time is running, yknow Razz

Quote:
I've a second issue with Ottos though. As abus are now age III they lack some early game prowess (where they should be veeeeery strong, history wise). My idea would be to sacrifice the azap-unit. I mean, this unit was-next to Russian Poleaxemen-the most worthless NE addition. With cav archers becoming available in age II now, they become even more obsolete. But ditching one unit does not really increase their power, right? So what's the replacement?

I agree these 2 units need a much better role. I have thought about a role of Poleaxeman outside of the Russian civ (guardian, merc, etc. whatever) and Azaps, yeah, I'd like them better with sabres too, but Ottomans need a pikeman-like unit and I think that's how I'll blend the unit. I really dislike zaps as expensive halberdier-like units.

Quote:
Easy enough: bashi-bazouk! With oprichniks gone they could be the new scourge of every player's economy.

They would be cheap (~ 40 food and 40 wood) light infantry similar to coyote runners with low HP and decent melee attack with a good bonus against villagers as well as high siege attack. They are fully upgradeable but cannot be abused like oprichniks as Ottos simply lack infantry upgrades and traintime-decrease.
From an artistical point of view I would say-simply replace the azap's halberd with scimitar and buckler and let them now spread fear as irregulars. Otherwise I'm sure PredatoR's mod has some bashi-bazouk-unit/skins.

An anti-villager bonus could be an additional bonus, but yeah, Bashibozuks aren't quite a regular unit.

Quote:
BTW: I know, there is a abus-shipment available in age II. Which is a nice touch. Generally I really like the idea of having a single shipment of units before they become available (goes for American Light Goons as well) that's a really cool feature. But I doubt it can compensate for a whole unit.

It's not meant to compensate a whole unit, but on the other hand Ottomans get Archers now and if Azaps get reworked respectively they might be an additional option as well. Also there never was an age 2 Abus Gun card before and since Abus will start with veteran stats now you could actually say there is a certain advantage to this change. Saving resources for 3 Veteran Abus Guns in Age 2 is already a great thing.

theyseemeroland wrote:
Tilanus, If the Danish overseas colonies warrants the 10 Sepoys card, then shouldn't the British, Dutch, Portuguese, and French (check my history here) all have the same card or an even larger shipment of Sepoys available?

Just an idea, but maybe an embassy-type building could be shipped instead that trains Sepoys? like a Trading Company Wagon?

Anyway, if Gurkhas are being removed from the Indian Civ then I guess Gurkha shipments could happen? at least for the British.

I don't know if I like the embassy idea, but your remark about other civs getting access to colonial troops is justified and a development I just started with the Danes but imagined for other civs as well.
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The Navigator Prince
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:08 pm    Post subject:

Great job!!

Great names to the italian H.C. buildings.

Thank God you changed the concept of the Strelet. I'm a bit of a quality above quantity person, so I hated them. Finnish warriors now can be sent to help Mother-Russia?! The Russian Bear is awakening, hide while you can...

Is good to know that Sweden landed on planet Earth Wink

The mighty British Empire having renamed gatling guns on their arsenal?! Cool adding, fits well with the brits Smile

Spain, the glorious Spain finally will be in the Napoleonic Era (I mean the concept of the civ, now more modern). Those fearsome Musketeers joining the ranks of Spanish HC is threatning, as are their Blandengues.

The Swiss icons look good and new civ concept is very interesting. The gameplay would be very interesting as well and very challenging in a 2 vs 2, for example.

When the matters is with the Portuguese, I think you made a good move. I mean, of course I loved to have the best Draggons in game, but Portugal was never the kind of Empire based on Cavalry - please note that the few cavalry men within the Army were some of the best in Europe, no discucions about that, but they were too few...

On a side note, I read in a past report that the pt colonies will have represantation within the civ. That's great, but please don't put anithing like Agolan spearmen or Brasilian rifelman...
I don't want to seem autoritary or ofend anybody, but I think that doing the representation like that is not good.

A couple of small and simple (I think) suggestions to the Pt HC: put the card "House of Bragança" (please note the Ç) in the age III would be a good move, gameplay wise, wouldn't you agree? Same with the "Portuguese White Fleet".

A bit off topic question: Will the Americans keep the Corvett ship in their docks? It seems a bit strange for the americans to have corvetts, same with Ironclads, but those are pure fun Smile
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The last Austriahungarian
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:48 pm    Post subject:

The navigator prince:

Why not add these portuguese colonial troops?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:37 pm    Post subject:

I dont want you to think I'm against the adding of colonial troops.
What I wanted to say is that in those times, there was a United Empire, so, no brasilian musketeer or african scout.

I think the best way of doing the representation is making some kind of banner armies, like the ones in the Reichtag.

For example:

-Terço da Armada da Coroa de Portugal (ancient portuguese marines- a place for a swedish fuzilier alike unit might I have found?)
-Royal Angolan Expedicionary Force
-Brasilian Colonial Brigade
-Indian Regiment of Goa

(these names are not historical, just the first)

This banner Armies could be trained in the University or in some other place and in diferent Ages pherhaps. In this way, I think that the representation would be more acurate and more fun than just recruit separate units. I know that this means a lot of job, but it's my idea, you can judge that.

But, hey, what do you think of my 2 small sugestions? Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:18 pm    Post subject:

Hey guys don't get it wrong regarding Portuguese colonial troops! I'm watching people talking about Angola and Mozambique but to make it clear, the colonial troops added to the Portuguese civilization are Indian Sepoys (Cipaios) as a HC shipment and Brazilian Guardia do Imperador as Church shipment! Maybe we will add more in the future but as for now these are the additions.
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