Modding Report #27 - Homecity trips
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The Navigator Prince
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:40 am    Post subject:

Ok,sorry for the confusion; that kind of representation is fine, those Sepoys are a cool adding to any HC.


Just a lil note,it's not "Guardia", but Guarda (perhaps you just right it in a wrong way, but just to be sure you put that right in the game Smile )
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Firestorm
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:47 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Just a lil note,it's not "Guardia", but Guarda (perhaps you just right it in a wrong way, but just to be sure you put that right in the game)


Yeah, my mistake. Ingame it is Guarda do Imperador. It is one of the most beautiful cavalry units in NE 2.2 Wink
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The last Austriahungarian
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:15 am    Post subject:

i am so excited Smile and is not because NE 2.2 will be good but because after this is ended they can finaly start working on Asian civs lol (just joking).

May I ask you something Tilanus? Why didnt you already added the pike and shot age 1 and 2 and moved musketeers to age 3? just for curiosity.

Also how are these new (op) age 2 artileries going ? Smile

Also are you still planing on adying esclusive songs to very civ like in wol?

forward thanks Mr. Green
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The Navigator Prince
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:27 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Ingame it is Guarda do Imperador. It is one of the most beautiful cavalry units in NE 2.2


It's great to know that Smile

Only one question (and maybe a big one, not sure if you can answer),the Guarda is a Ranged or Melee Cavalry?

Speaking of Cavalry, those Winged Hussars, that now are, you know, really winged, look great, but won't be feared among my Lusitanian Ranks!! Ugly Puncher
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Firestorm
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:54 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Only one question (and maybe a big one, not sure if you can answer),the Guarda is a Ranged or Melee Cavalry?


Melee Cavalry, they are Lancers.

Quote:
Speaking of Cavalry, those Winged Hussars, that now are, you know, really winged, look great, but won't be feared among my Lusitanian Ranks!!


Why? The Winged Hussar are quite strong indeed and should be feared by every army. Well Portugal gets Royal Guard Dragoons on Age IV, but still polish cavalry is strong and dangerous for every civilization.
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The Navigator Prince
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:36 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Melee Cavalry, they are Lancers.


Cool, I like Lancers.


I was kidding Wink By what I've heard and read here in the forum and in other places, Winged Hussars were like suberb infantry crushers, and I imagin that not even special Draggons (now not so special Devil ) can stop a great charge of that particular Cavalry.

Poland will be definitely even more fun to play now!
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checanos
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:29 am    Post subject:

Wow so much has been done! Great work. I really like that so much thought is put into each card.

Will each civ get about the same amount of cards overall?
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Firestorm
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:33 am    Post subject:

Quote:
I was kidding. By what I've heard and read here in the forum and in other places, Winged Hussars were like suberb infantry crushers, and I imagin that not even special Draggons (now not so special) can stop a great charge of that particular Cavalry.

Yeah, Winged Hussars are superb infantry crushers, they too are Lancers. But Poland's strength lies more in the fact that on NE 2.2 they have the most complete cavalry roster of all civilizations. They can counter anything with their cavalry units, so the key of success is to know how to use the different cavalry units available to them. On the other hand their infantry isn't anything special.
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The last Austriahungarian
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:03 pm    Post subject:

Firestorm wrote:
Quote:
I was kidding. By what I've heard and read here in the forum and in other places, Winged Hussars were like suberb infantry crushers, and I imagin that not even special Draggons (now not so special) can stop a great charge of that particular Cavalry.

Yeah, Winged Hussars are superb infantry crushers, they too are Lancers. But Poland's strength lies more in the fact that on NE 2.2 they have the most complete cavalry roster of all civilizations. They can counter anything with their cavalry units, so the key of success is to know how to use the different cavalry units available to them. On the other hand their infantry isn't anything special.


Poland is the best....for now lol MARATHAS WILL RISE!!
Anyway remebee that you thing you asked the india thread to make a list dividing the tad units between mughauls, europeans and marathas? We already did check it out Mr. Green
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The Navigator Prince
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:14 pm    Post subject:

Polish Cavalry will be very hard to counter if used correctly I imagin.
Strategies based on Uhlans or Drabants are one thing, but a civ based on Cavalry will require great skill, even if the units are strong.

A civ more based on infantry will have more problems (like Britain or Portugal-both have good cavalry, but depend more on infantry, my opinion). Poland will be a fun civ to play with and against.

That remembers me of one thing, it is not the right place but, sometimes Poland don't ages up, both when it is an ally and when it is an enemy, will that be corrected?
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Firestorm
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:49 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Anyway remebee that you thing you asked the india thread to make a list dividing the tad units between mughauls, europeans and marathas? We already did check it out

I read your thread from time to time and take notice about it. But as I said there isn't a final decision if India will be separated or remain united (well, it will continue to be united in NE 2.2) but in both cases your work will be valuable for the future of NE India Wink

Quote:
Will each civ get about the same amount of cards overall?

Well, they can't send more than 25 HC Cards in any match (except the Cards that can be sent multiple times) so this isn't important after all, if a civilization gets 140 cards and another gets 142. But we will try to keep in check the number of cards for each civilization.

Quote:
That remembers me of one thing, it is not the right place but, sometimes Poland don't ages up, both when it is an ally and when it is an enemy, will that be corrected?

On NE 2.1.7b and previous versions Poland needs to build their unique farms in order to age up. From NE 2.2 this won't be needed anymore, so they will age up as any other European civilization. So the AI now handles this with no problems, so that issue is fixed Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:41 pm    Post subject:

The Navigator Prince wrote:
Polish Cavalry will be very hard to counter if used correctly I imagin.
Strategies based on Uhlans or Drabants are one thing, but a civ based on Cavalry will require great skill, even if the units are strong.

A civ more based on infantry will have more problems (like Britain or Portugal-both have good cavalry, but depend more on infantry, my opinion). Poland will be a fun civ to play with and against.

Actually, Poland is not an easy civ. Polish cavalry is good, but also expensive and it'll take some skill and time to reach a critical amount of Pancerni and/or Husarze. If we're talking about timing of rush and rush defense then you got Uhlans and maybe the new Lisowczyk archers in the stable. In terms of cost-efficency there is a notable gap between these 2 units and the new Pancerny, who's a heavy hussar basically. In the transition to from Uhlans to Pancerni, Polish cavalry is a bit vulnerable. So if a Polish player gets pressured early on, especially his gold, he can not utilize his cavalry power. Food is not a problem, but gold is. Luckily the Poles got a decent amount of cavalry unit cards in Age 2. I'd even say it's a bit too much right now and I'm probably going to play around with cavalry card counts and unit costs to get this right.

Most HCs have 148 cards in NE btw and I try to stick to that with exceptions to the rule.
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The Navigator Prince
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:26 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
So the AI now handles this with no problems, so that issue is fixed

Excelent!


Good to have some enlightenment about polish strategy from the Commodor himself Smile


Another doubt:
"Chevauleger will be the new hussar"

If it will, it will be for the nations that were allies of Napoleonic France right, like Italy and the Nederlands? The others will keep hussars or am I missing something?
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-From Poem "Aleluia", by Pedro Homem de Mello; André Villas-Boas speech, 2011
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Silmariel
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:03 am    Post subject:

1.Icons
Well, I simply think that those icons look too "real" for AoE and introducing new icons for already existing units is a really bad idea in my opinion. If you change their stats though, as it certainly is planned with hussars, it might be suitable. Still I suggest to keep the cartoon look to it. Does not look very stringent. About the irregular-icon: nothing wrong with blue per se, but it's a player color and thus a bit confusing.

2.Azap/Poleaxemen
Yes, other civs have halberds and dragoons (and even pikes!) but guess why you hardly see any halberds in battle? They are expensive and still worse than musketeers. The only civ that had some justification for them is Dutch which obviously lacked musketeers. But that's not really the problem with azaps. It has to do with the intended ottoman playstyle: until the introduction of sepoy and ashiguru with TAD they had the strongest musketeer-unit in game. No one would dare to spam cav against them. And now they get some more anti-cavalry? That does not make much sense. Also historical wise. I mean, yeah, those azaps might have existed. But how important were they? They simply feeled like a unit to fill their roster but with no acutal use. Excited for those "unique" bashi bozuks. But yeah, give them some anti-villager bonus on their way.

Things where a bit different with Poleaxemen for Russians as they DID compensate a weakness within this civ. In a matter that they now had no weakness left at all in early game. The only way I could imagine them to make a reappearance in game would be to put them on a horse and use them as archaic Russian heavy cavalry with noble background (дружина?). A shipment would enable the Guard and Imperial upgrades to Chevaliers Garde.

3. Xbow
Crossbowmen for Spanish seems like much better than having them at barracks/homecity. Another note on Italian and Swiss xbows. As I've grown fond of relating post-veteran-upgrades of archaic units to certain shipments lately, I think that would be cool for those two as well.
Swiss already have a special shipment which increases range and HI-multiplier("Arbalester"?), that could be moved to age III easily as well as enabling Guard xbow and Imperial upgrades.
Italian xbows should be related to the Pavise (which is currently a very ugly mercenary) so maybe such a shipment("Pavise") could increase their armor and enable RG xbow ("Genoese") and Imperial Genoese. As they are basically unique units now, maybe the arsenal-tech "Windlass" could be integrated with their standard-stats?

4. To make it extra long and thus hopefully more enjoyable for Firestorm a few additional remarks
4.I:I dont think it's good to introdruce a new unit concept such as colonial soldiers. Why not keep those sepoys as simple mercenaries? Same goes for the gurkha which should be a melee mercenary though.
4.II: Talking about mercs: While I know that Tilanus does not like that mercenaries take up more population space than normal units I need to bring this up (again). Natives should cost no pop (but buildlimit; as is) to show that they get support from the local population. On the other hand bandits and (true) mercenaries are merged into a single group of mercenaries with high pop cost (so that an infantry-mercenary could cost between 4 and 5 pop) and age-dependant-stats. They cost high-pop to prevent opness but also to show that they carried around a tross of civilians to support themselves.
4.III: I dont know how strong those Swiss-team-unit-shipments are but maybe consider making them sendable infinite times?
4.IV: While I dont really if Poland has too many cav-shipments, they certainly have quite a bunch (you might say-too many) team shipments in the military section.

PS: I hope you have received those TEAM-gold-crates...

Edit: French dragoon shipment in US'military departement sports the tricolore flag while the French shipments in the navy departement have the ancient french flag in the background.
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Zerosanity
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:25 pm    Post subject:

I'm really looking forward to this. Your work is amazing. I've just got one question, when will you release this? Or you estimate to release it.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:55 am    Post subject:

Silmariel wrote:
1.Icons
Well, I simply think that those icons look too "real" for AoE and introducing new icons for already existing units is a really bad idea in my opinion. If you change their stats though, as it certainly is planned with hussars, it might be suitable. Still I suggest to keep the cartoon look to it. Does not look very stringent. About the irregular-icon: nothing wrong with blue per se, but it's a player color and thus a bit confusing.

It's a tech icon and not an icon for an existing unit. But even in that case, people would quickly learn and adapt to it. I know about AoE3's cartoony style and try to preserve it as good as time allows me to. However, I won't cry from a few deviations here and there as it's actually beneficial for the overall look of NE portraits. AoE3 portraits are not really specific in their meaning and aestethically not quite a hit either.

Quote:
2.Azap/Poleaxemen
Yes, other civs have halberds and dragoons (and even pikes!) but guess why you hardly see any halberds in battle? They are expensive and still worse than musketeers. The only civ that had some justification for them is Dutch which obviously lacked musketeers. But that's not really the problem with azaps. It has to do with the intended ottoman playstyle: until the introduction of sepoy and ashiguru with TAD they had the strongest musketeer-unit in game. No one would dare to spam cav against them. And now they get some more anti-cavalry? That does not make much sense. Also historical wise. I mean, yeah, those azaps might have existed. But how important were they? They simply feeled like a unit to fill their roster but with no acutal use. Excited for those "unique" bashi bozuks. But yeah, give them some anti-villager bonus on their way.

I know about the unpopularity of halberds and therefore will try to change their concept a bit. Can't promise that for the next version though, but I have it on my list. Wink

As for the Azaps, they were the ordinary footmen of the Ottomans and hence anything but as elitary as NE might make you believe right now. So my plans for the Azap go more into the direction of making them more massable and pikeman-like.

Janissaries are not really effective as anti-cav, especially not in NE with better units such as Fusiliers. And people charging into musks, well, they're not really smart in general, right? What's true is that Ottoman anti cav capabilities improved a lot through the addition of Camel Riders, Age 2 CAs and Archers (anti-LC). Cavalry was the backbone of the Ottoman empire though and hence I don't see a real problem with that. Keep in mind Jans were nerfed and Abus are Age 3 now. Otto laming in the classic way isn't really possible anymore. And all their anti-cav is easy to counter in Age 3.

Quote:
Things where a bit different with Poleaxemen for Russians as they DID compensate a weakness within this civ. In a matter that they now had no weakness left at all in early game. The only way I could imagine them to make a reappearance in game would be to put them on a horse and use them as archaic Russian heavy cavalry with noble background (дружина?). A shipment would enable the Guard and Imperial upgrades to Chevaliers Garde.

A copy of FE Boyar, eh? I have different plans for the Poleaxemen designs. Most likely they'll be used for new guardians and mercs. Current Poleaxemen were rather shitty units. Pikemen make not only more sense gamewise, but also historically. The new Strelez unit will also have much better melee defenses. So you could say they'll somehow get even better anti-cav, even though Streltsy as elite arquebusiers don't get an anti-cav bonus at all. In return Russians will face some delays in the unit tree and the Strelez is not exactly a cheap unit.

Quote:
3. Xbow
Crossbowmen for Spanish seems like much better than having them at barracks/homecity. Another note on Italian and Swiss xbows. As I've grown fond of relating post-veteran-upgrades of archaic units to certain shipments lately, I think that would be cool for those two as well.
Swiss already have a special shipment which increases range and HI-multiplier("Arbalester"?), that could be moved to age III easily as well as enabling Guard xbow and Imperial upgrades.
Italian xbows should be related to the Pavise (which is currently a very ugly mercenary) so maybe such a shipment("Pavise") could increase their armor and enable RG xbow ("Genoese") and Imperial Genoese. As they are basically unique units now, maybe the arsenal-tech "Windlass" could be integrated with their standard-stats?

Arbalesters are actually Swiss xbow RGs already, currently only with the difference that its a Church tech yet. Therefore there is also an imperial upgrade avl.

Merging windlass into xbow stats is a good catch and an idea I will consider. Does it really only affect xbows or also other archer-type units? (Can't check right now).

I also agree that Pavises are not beautiful (even though their shield is). Removing the Pavises as mercs and merging them with the current Genovesi RG (or making these Church tech units) is an idea for later releases. I'm at the maximum for unit merges of all kinds for NE 2.2. On the other hand are the Pavises a nice analogy to the Italian FE UU.

Quote:
4. To make it extra long and thus hopefully more enjoyable for Firestorm a few additional remarks
4.I:I dont think it's good to introdruce a new unit concept such as colonial soldiers. Why not keep those sepoys as simple mercenaries? Same goes for the gurkha which should be a melee mercenary though.

Your Kurkhi is not within NE's timeline iirc. Sepoys could ofc be mercenaries, but not before Indians get a decent replacement. Apart from that I don't see an absolute requirement for units to be natives or mercenaries of some kind to be sendable from other civ's HCs. Sepoys are not even the first shipment of that kind. In fact, Americans, Germans and Italians already have these shipments.

Quote:
4.II: Talking about mercs: While I know that Tilanus does not like that mercenaries take up more population space than normal units I need to bring this up (again). Natives should cost no pop (but buildlimit; as is) to show that they get support from the local population. On the other hand bandits and (true) mercenaries are merged into a single group of mercenaries with high pop cost (so that an infantry-mercenary could cost between 4 and 5 pop) and age-dependant-stats. They cost high-pop to prevent opness but also to show that they carried around a tross of civilians to support themselves.

Haven't forgotten this one, though I came to conclusion that 2 and 3pop are fine for me for single units, in rare cases even more. Scaling down merc stats and grouping them is still something I'm going to consider.

Quote:
4.III: I dont know how strong those Swiss-team-unit-shipments are but maybe consider making them sendable infinite times?

In fact I'm not totally happy with them right now. They cost different resources right now (different amounts) as a small obstacle. The cards themselves aren't too strong (considering they cost res), but infinitely sendable could lead to great abuse. 2x would be alright.

Quote:
4.IV: While I dont really if Poland has too many cav-shipments, they certainly have quite a bunch (you might say-too many) team shipments in the military section.

Indeed, I noticed that as well and removed a few from the whole HC.

Quote:
PS: I hope you have received those TEAM-gold-crates...

If Mr. F is you, then yes! Thank you! Smile

Quote:
Edit: French dragoon shipment in US'military departement sports the tricolore flag while the French shipments in the navy departement have the ancient french flag in the background.

Yea, I know. The Polish card has now an outdated flag as well. Might fix it later. Smile
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