Ship's Names

 
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The Navigator Prince
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:16 pm    Post subject: Ship's Names

Hello ladies and gentleman Smile

I'm "new" to this forum, but I'm beeing visiting it every week since the realese of N.E. 2.1.7.b, and I have a thing to ask about this: Shipment

I know, I know, the personel of this mod must be thinking: "Oh ...another guy that registred only to give it's personal views of the game and say what he wants in the mod..."

BUT, I'm not here for that, I'm only saying this because I think it's the best (you are like - That's what the others said) lol

Just going to what matters, a while ago, I was playing in a naval map and I noticed that the names of the Portuguese ships could be better, at least... I don't know if the other nations have the same lil "problem".

So, to try to solve this, I searched in some folders, but I found nothing (maybe cause nothing seems to be in the right place for me).

At first I thought to ask here how to change those names, but then I realesed that, in a mod so great as will be N.E. 2.2, apropriated ship names would give more naval flavour in a game that, in my opinion, really lacks on it. Sad

So, can you guys change the names of the ships if they are not the "best"?
If yes,
I can provide the most cool and historical acurate names for the Portuguese Armada's Ships and, to some extent, for the Spanish Amada's ships too, and other people could provide for the other Navies;

If not, just tell me how to do it Smile


PS: That Idea of the Capital ship is awesome. A Flagship of your Armada, really cool! I'm already imaginating a "Nossa Senhora da Conceição", a "Nuestra Señora de la Santísima Trinidad" or a "HMS Victory".
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:12 pm    Post subject:

Hello and welcome to the forum!
If you have a list of ship'names of Spain and Portugal then post it on this topic. Be sure that we will consider them. Also, making suggestions doesn't hurt anybody, so if you think to have a good idea for this mod feel free to post it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:06 am    Post subject:

One of my first and most extensive tasks for NE in 2007 I think was researching historical ship names for the new NE civs. I put a lot of attention to the correct ship classes to avoid giving a Caravel a battleship's name. And finaly, the date. I tried to include no ship that saw its first service after ~1820.

So I'd like to add that if you provide a list of ship names, then the names alone are not enough and that I'd very much like to see those NE quality guidelines fulfilled. If you show us a list of various Portuguese warships from that time I might be able to give some advice. Smile
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The Navigator Prince
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:53 pm    Post subject:

Ok, this is a small Rolling Eyes list of ships of the Armada Portuguesa. It includes:

Name in Portuguese, (name in English if possible), period of service and kind of ship.

Important note:
The Pt navy had Caravels, Galleons and Naus. And you may be asking, "What the hell is a Nau?"
The Nau was the workhorse of the Pt Navy and considered kinda of a big Galleon by the rest of the Europeans. In the 15', a Portuguese Nau was built to go to India AND return, transport tons of goods and be able to defend itself from attacks from dozens of enemy vessels.
To make things simpler, what is considered a Nau, I'll put as a Galleon.


Here there are the most cool, important and relevant names. If someone can remember some better, don't hesitate in posting them.


Caravels (a few from 1497 to 1588):

-São Gabriel, 1497-1499? *
-São Rafael, 1497-1498/99? *
-São Miguel, former Bérrio, 1497-1500? *
-Esmeralda, ?-1503 -earliest ship from the Age of Discoveries found to date. Found in the Gulf of Oman in March this year.
-Águia (Eagle), ?-1559
-Garça (Egret), ?-1559 -some records state that its captain was killed in a mutiny and the ship was converted to a Pirate vessel. Later captured by the Portuguese authorities and it's crew hanged in Goa.
-São Paulo, ?-1561
-Santo António, 1578-?
-São Cristóvão, 1581-?
-São Luís, 1585-?
-São Bernardo, 1586-?
-São Tomé, ?-1589

* Ships commanded by Vasco da Gama in the "Discovery" of the Sea Route to India;

Note:
Keep the name "Bérrio" and change "Atalaia" to "Nossa Senhora da Atalaia".


Galleons and Naus:

-Flor de la Mar (Flower of the Sea), 1502-1511, Legendary Galleon, sank in a storm near Malaca; with it, is the biggest undiscovered treasure of all time -
it's still waiting in the bottom of the sea;

-Santa Catarina do Monte Sinai (Saint Catherine of Mount Sinai), 1512-? -in 1528 participated in the conquest of Mombaça, in East Africa, and was still one of the most powerful ships on the seas;

-S. João Baptista (aka Botafogo ~ "Spitfire"), 1534-? -the most powerful ship of the time - had 1000 tons and 366 bronze cannons... just wtf!?!?

-Madre de Deus (Mother of God), 1589-1592 -biggest ship of its time, ridiculously big; captured around Açores - its cargo doubled the size of the English Treasure;

-Cinco Chagas (Five Wounds*), mighty Galleon built in the shipyards of Portuguese India; Sank near Faial Island, Açores, in 1594;
*reference to the 5 wounds Jesus suffered in the Cross;
Small piece of trivia Spoiler:

Nightfall, June 22, 1594.

The Galleon Cinco Chagas was surrounded and attacked by 3 English Privateers who were by 3 times violently driven back.
Commanded by Captain Francisco de Melo Canaveado, the Portuguese, largely outgun and outnumbered, sick and exhausted from the long Indian Returning Voyage, fought with all they got till the very end.
When the last of the English vessels was pushed back and Victory seemed assured, some sailors noticed that fire spread from one of the Privateers to the Chagas. The Portuguese crew struggled to control the fire but in vain.

In panic, many women and children jumped to the freezing Atlantic waters around Faial Island, just to be killed by the ruthless English corsairs, who, angered by the terrific losses they suffered, rushed into the zone. When the fire reached the ammo deposit, all those who were still on board for not be able to swim died with the explosion.

Few Navies have battles even comparable to this one.


-Nossa Senhora do Rosario, ?-1646 -great Galleon;

-Santíssimo Sacramento (Holy Sacrament), 1650-1668;

-Padre Eterno (Eternal Father), 1663-"some years later" -biggest ship of its time; Her main mast was made of a single trunk with almost 3 meters in circumference at the base.

Small piece of trivia Spoiler:

In 1646, the galleon Nossa Senhora do Rosario got surrounded by 2 Dutch galleons in the waters of Bahia, in Brasil. Her captain made clear that no surrender was acceptable and blown up his own ship.
Only 9 sailors survived.
The colossal explosion caught the Dutch Utrecht, who sank instantly and made terrible damage to the Nassau, who was abandoned on a nearby island.

Later "Nassau" was picked up, repaired, renamed to "Fortuna" and within 6 months was put to action at the service of Portugal.



Now the real muscle. This are the strongest Galleons from the Portuguese Squadron of the Armada Invencível (1588):

-São Martinho (the Flagship of the Armada) - the most powerful ship of its time, 1580-1588? (returned, but heavily damaged);
-São João (2nd in command of the Armada);
-São Marcos, 1585-1589;
-São Felipe, destroyed or captured when was being repaired in 1588;
-São Mateus, captured in 1588.

Small piece of trivia Spoiler:

Just for you to get a feel, on August 8, around 8:00 am, this 5 galleons alone faced pretty much the full might of the English Fleet.

The galleon S. Felipe was attacked simultaneously by 16 English ships, S. Mateus was attacked by another 10, S. Martinho got surrounded by 5 of their best and, just in this fight, more than 200 cannon balls hit her.

It was hard... but all of them survived that day.




In the 18th Century the Portuguese Navy flourished again.

Though not being exceptionally large it still had a very decent size. This "new" Navy was decisive in many conflicts, among them, in the Battle of Matapan (1717).


The following ships are Frigates from the Esquadrão de Portugal and saw plenty of action in the above-mentioned battle:

-Nossa Senhora da Conceição (Our Lady of Conception), 1707-1724
-Nossa Senhora do Pilar (Our Lady of Pilar), 1715-1740
-Nossa Senhora da Assunção (Our Lady of Assumption), 1705-1731
-Nossa Senhora das Necessidades (Our Lady of Needs), 1708-1737
-Santa Rosa (Holy Rose), 1716-1726
-Rainha dos Anjos (Queen of the Angels), 1716-1822
-São Lourenço, 1716-1734

-Nossa Senhora da Misericórdia (Our Lady of Mercy), 1744-1754
In 1752 faced alone 21(!) Maratha (Indian) ships, 10 of them very large ones, that were on their way to attack the city of Calicut, and won with just a few casualties taken, but forcing the Marathas to flee.


In the Napoleonic Wars!! Napoleon

-Since 1792 and up until the end of the Napoleonic Era, the Portuguese Navy was organized in 2 main groups, in order to help the British:

Arrow the Atlantic Armada: 13 Man-o'-War and 16 Frigates;
Arrow the Indic Armada: 1 Man-o'-War and 6 Frigates.


The following names are from Frigates and Man-o'-War.

-Nossa Senhora da Conceição (the most powerful of the Portuguese Man-o'-War) 1771 -rebuilt and renamed to "Príncipe Real" in 1794 - 1823
-Nossa Senhora da Ajuda (Our Lady of Help), 1759 -rebuilt, renamed to "Princesa da Beira" in 1793 - 1834
-Nossa Senhora de Belém (Our Lady of Belém), 1766 -rebuilt, renamed to "S. José" in 1804 - 1805
-Nossa Senhora do Monte Carmo (Our Lady of Mount Carmo), 1786 -rebuilt, renamed to "Medusa" in 1793/4 - 1822
-Nossa Senhora do Bom Sucesso (Our Lady of Good Success), 1766 -rebuilt, renamed to "D. João de Castro" in 1800 - 1822
-Nossa Senhora dos Prazeres (Our Lady of Pleasures), 1767 -rebuilt, renamed to "Afonso de Albuquerque" in 1796 - 1822
-Coração de Jesus (Heart of Jesus), 1789 -rebuilt, renamed to "D. Maria I" in 1793 - 1810
-Rainha de Portugal (Queen of Portugal), 1791-1833
-Vasco da Gama, 1792-1822
-São Sebastião, known among the French as "Le Grand Dragon", 1767-1832
-Santo António a Pérola da América (Saint Anthony the Pearl of America), 1763 -rebuilt, renamed to "Martim de Freitas" in 1806 - 1822
-São Francisco Xavier, 1804-1840
-Temível Portuguesa (Fearsome Portuguese) -awesome name, 1778-1844
-Real Fidelíssima (Royal (most)Faithful), 1777-1817

Small piece of trivia Spoiler:

A lil curiosity:
The reason all those Frigates and Man-o'-War had their name changed has to do with the end of the tradition to name ships according to Saints.
From then on ships were (and still are) to be named according to important personalities of our History.




Monitors

I couldn't find anything about real Monitors (Bombard ships) serving in the Portuguese Navy, so the present names will be just fine.
Ingame, there are names like Victória (Victory), São Diogo and S. João Baptista. This last one is referring to the Galleon "Botafogo" (see above), so I presume that the other names were also taken from Ships-of-the-Line that at some point were also used as Siege ships.

Small piece of trivia Spoiler:

During the Conquest of Tunis in 1535 the galleon São João Baptista, Pride of the Allied Armada, was tasked to bombard the city and to take the city's harbour.

The colossal ship actions were a key part in the Campaign as she devastated absolutely everything in her way, maneuvered through the city's defenses and rammed the chains of the harbour, allowing the Christian Armada to conquer Tunis on the behalf of the Habsburg Empire of Charles V, striking a considerable blow to Ottoman's prestige ...or maybe not - the Ottomans were really bad ass by that time, but just to some dudes.

Also, it's from here that the name "Botafogo" ("Spitfire" or "Fire maker") came from.


_______

Well, that's very long for an small and incomplete list Razz but it gives you some notion of the ships serving, in what time they did aannd their proper names.

If you want to learn a little more, here is an interesting video (27 min) about the Portuguese ships with excellent English subs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0J62qGCHNA
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The Navigator Prince
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:39 pm    Post subject:

Look to what I've just found...

https://imgur.com/a/MTI0w

It was kinda of akward thing... Being playing with the Ottomans and suddenly my galleys have to destroy a Frigate with such a good name...
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"There are no defeats when you walk firm. No one speaks about loosing, no one goes back."

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:51 am    Post subject:

I hope you won't be offended if I use some of the names in my upcoming Renaissance mod? Mr. Green

This info is really hard to find.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:27 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
I hope you won't be offended if I use some of the names in my upcoming Renaissance mod?

Please, it would be really cool if you use them.
This game has Portuguese ships (Portuguese! for God sake) with names written in a wrong way, names of ships that no one ever heard about, instead of the mighty ones that gave and give pride to Portugal, not mentioning the ones written in Spanish (Trinidad, for example) or in English (Conception)... I mean, come on...


You are right. It's really hard to find reliable sources about this matters. I know some. The best is written only in portuguese so it would be virtualy impossible for you to chek it, but nevertheless:
http://marinhadeguerraportuguesa.blogspot.pt/2012/11/guerras-napoleonicas.html

Apart from the info about the Portuguese Royal Navy, this source also have informations about the British Royal Navy, the Portuguese Legion, the Loyal Lusitan Legion, the Portuguese Colonies, the Barbary Pirates and much more.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:25 am    Post subject:

Just wanted to say I didn't forget about this thread, will use these names. Smile
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The Navigator Prince
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:03 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
will use these names.

Excellent!
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"Não há derrotas quando é firme o passo. Ninguém fala em perder, ninguém recua."
"There are no defeats when you walk firm. No one speaks about loosing, no one goes back."

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The Navigator Prince
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:56 pm    Post subject:

Hey, just to say that I made some changes in the Ships Post. It's now more complete and accurate. Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:18 pm    Post subject:

Hi again, Cool

Before all things:
I have been searching names for the Spanish Navy cuz I noticed that this issue may be even greater in the Spanish civ than it is in the Portuguese one.
If anyone have names of Spanish ships please post them.


Now the important thing: The Crosses.

I'm talking about the Crosses on the Sails of the Ships.
Among other proposes, the cross printed in the sail is suppose to demonstrate to what country the ship belongs, so different countries have different "crosses". Some Nations didn't print Crosses but Emblems or Coat of Arms on the sails. The Cross is an insignia that should not be misplaced as it is ingame.

Needless to say that only the christian nations have crosses so...the Ottomans... Topmodel

Actually, ingame, all the crosses in the sails are the Insignia of the Portuguese Order of Crist and, therefore, should be present only in the Portuguese ships.



So, if possible, can you also change the emblems in the sails to the historical ones?


This is a very very small detail but an important one.
I know I'm putting much work in the hands of the Team but please, don't kill me, it is with good intention Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:59 am    Post subject:

Regarding the crosses on the sails of most ships, we already removed them from the fleets of the Ottomans and Indians. Since China and Japan have their unique fleets, and the rest being christian nations (forgot about TWC Razz ) I don't see it as a problem. NE 2.2 won't bring any major upheaval on sea wars, although there are a few changes in this section too. Maybe in the future Tilanus might consider your suggestion, he's full of surprises. Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:51 am    Post subject:

Hi again Firestorm Mr. Green

Quote:
we already removed them from the fleets of the Ottomans and Indians

Oh yes... I precipitated myself there. Embarassed

Quote:
I don't see it as a problem

As I said, it's only a small detail, but I think it would be great, for example, the sails of the Prussian Frigates with the Eagle printed on them, or the Russians Galleons with their Coat-of-Arms.

Quote:
NE 2.2 won't bring any major upheaval on sea wars

Then it's a matter for NE 2.2.1 Razz

Quote:
although there are a few changes in this section too

winking thumbs up!


Quote:
Maybe in the future Tilanus might consider your suggestion, he's full of surprises

Ok, then I shall wait.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:58 am    Post subject:

Quote:
As I said, it's only a small detail, but I think it would be great, for example, the sails of the Prussian Frigates with the Eagle printed on them, or the Russians Galleons with their Coat-of-Arms.

I agree. I've always liked details like that
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:38 pm    Post subject:

Hey, guys! Cool

As I said, the issue with the Ship's Names also affects the Spanish civ so here it goes, another small list of historical names, this time featuring the Real Armada Española!

Some of the names in-game are historically accurate, but this way there will be more variety and therefore less repeated names.
If someone has better ideas for the names, please don't hesitate and pronounce yourself!

Important Note: It seems that many sources mistake Portuguese Galleons for Spanish ones. For example, in 1588, those colossal Galleons -São Martinho, not San Martín, or São João, not San Juan- were Portuguese from the bottom to the top.


Caravels

-Santa Clara;
-San Juan;
-Gallarda;
-Gutierre;
-Bonial;
-Rodriga;
-Triana;
-Prieta;
-Colina;
-Quintera;
-Gallega;
-Capitana;
-Vizcaina;
-Santiago de Palos;

Note: Ingame keep the "Trinidad", "Santa María", "Niña" and "Pinta".



Galleons -Few from 1550 to 1650:

-Nuestra Señora de la Concepción, aka "Cacafuego";
-Nuestra Señora de Atocha, sank in 1622 near Havana;
-Nuestra Señora del Rosario;
-Nuestra Señora de Begoña;
-San Juan Bautista;
-Santiago el Mayor;
-San Felipe y Santiago;
-San Cristóbal;
-San Diego;
-San Salvador;
-San Francisco;
-San Bartolomé;
-San Matías;
-Santa Ana;
-Santa Catalina;
-San Andrés;
-San Miguel;
-La Asunción;
-El Fuerte (the Strong);
-Santísimo Sacramento (Holy Sacrament);
-La Trinidad Bogitar;
-San Antonio de Padua;

Note: Ingame keep the "San Isidro", "El Grande" and "Santa Margarita".



Frigates and Man-o'-War

-Nuestra Señora de la Santísima Trinidad - Best Ship-of-the-Line ever built, 1769-1805;
-La Purísima Concepción (The (most)Pure Conception), very powerful ship, 1779-1810;
-San Juan Nepomuceno (already exists in-game only as "Nepomuceno"), 1767-1805;
-San Agustín, 1769 -captured and returned by the Portuguese in 1777 - 1805;
-San Francisco de Asis, 1767-1805;
-Príncipe de Asturias (Prince of Asturias), 1795-1814;
-Reina María Luisa (Queen María Luisa), 1791-1813;
-El Salvador del Mundo (The Savior of the World), 1787-1815;
-Ángel de la Guarda (Guardian Angel), 1773-1810;
-San Nicolás, 1769-1797;
-San Pedro Alcántara, 1771-1786;
-Real Felipe - to honor King Felipe V, 1732-1750;
-Gran Princesa de los Cielos (Great Princess of the Skies/Heavens), 1723-1726 - this ship really deserves that "Great" in the name;
-San Ignacio de Loyola, aka "Glorioso" -check out why; you won't regret it unless you are English lol, 1740-1747;
-El Dragón (The Dragon), 1745-1782, fought many battles against the Pirates of Argel;
-El Rayo, 1751-1805;
-Real Fénix, 1749-1780;
-El Magnánimo (The Magnanimous), 1754-1794;


Monitors

Ehr... again, I didn't find anything about real Monitor (Bombard) Ships besides Ships-of-the-Line also used as Siege ships at some point, so the present names are fine.


Here are the best sources I found in this research (in spanish):
http://www.todoababor.es/listado/
http://web.archive.org/web/20120702010953/http://blog.todoavante.es/
_______

Here it is! This way there will be no more vessels with repeated names serving in the Spanish and Portuguese navies.


Also, I want to Thank you for your efforts in improving this game throughout all these years. winking thumbs up!
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:17 pm    Post subject:

Hi again folks,
Again the same story, I've played several times with Italy and noticed the same issue with their navy - there's boats named Berlusconi... how I smiled when they sunk lol
#InteristasGonnaUnderstand
Just for the matter, I love the the 2 Milanese Giants. Internazionale FC vs AC Milan - the only teams out of Portugal that I support.

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So I made a quick research and well, here it is: Names for ships for the Regia Marina.

For the matter, I took much of the names from the Venetian and Genoese Navy's, and considered the Primo Rango (First Rank) ships from the Venetian Armada Grossa as Frigates. Names for Galleons were taken from ships from the Secondo Rango.

Galleys: Italy can make 18(!) Galleys as for this version of the mod, that's why I posted this absurd quantity of names.

All this Galleys fought the Battle of Lepanto (1571);
First group, Venetians; 2nd, Genovese; 3rd, Papal, Napolitan & Sicilian ships

-Capitana di Venezia
-Capitana dei Mari
-San Giovanni di Venezia
-Giuditta di Zante
-Sant'Alessandro di Bergamo
-Uomo di Mare di Vicenza
-Re Attila di Padova
-Forza di Venezia
-Torre di Vicenza
-Aquila di Candia
-Uomo Armato di Retimo
-Aquila di Corfù
-Angelo di Corfù

-Capitana di Genova
-Padrona di Genova
-Capitana dei Lomellini
-Perla di Gio Andrea Doria
-Vittoria di Gio Andrea Doria
-Marchesa di Gianandrea Doria
-Fortuna di Gianandrea Doria
-Furia dei Lomellini
-Diana di Genova

-Capitana di Sua Santità
-Santa Maria
-Fiorenza
-San Giovanni
-Vittoria
-Regina
-Luna di Napoli
-Speranza di Napoli
-Fortuna di Napoli
-Sicilia di Sicilia

Galleons:
-Costanza Guerriera, 1667-1684
-Giove Fulminante, 1667-1693
-Drago Volante, 1674-1694
-Madonna della Dalute, 1675-1714
-Venere Armata, 1676-1702
-Venezia Trionfante, 1680-1684
-San Marco Grande, 1684-1690
-San Giovanni Battista Piccolo, 1684-1695
-Pace e Abbondanza, 1684-1714
-Sant’ Antonio da Padova, 1684-1715
-Ercole Vittorioso, 1684-1719
-Sant’ Iseppo, 1685-1690
-Sant’ Andrea, 1685-1721
-San Nicolò, 1685-1717

Frigates:
-San Vittorio, 1684-1706
-San Giovanni Battista Grande, 1684-1706
-Amazzone Guerriera, 1697-1712
-Crosse Rossa, 1698-1715
-Colomba d'Oro, 1709-1727
-Grand'Alessandro, 1709-1729
-Corona, 1712-1728
-Regina del Mar, 1715-1744
-San Pio V, 1716-1740
-Fortuna Guerriera, 1717-1740
-Leon Trionfante, 1716-1740
-San Giacomo, 1765-1776
-San Carlo Borromeo, 1747-1768
-Vulcano, 1793-1797

Sorry, but I coundn't find any Monitors (again) Crying or Very sad


Well, I hope this gets some attention, after all, we love that lil naval flavor winking

Links Spoiler:

http://felipe.mbnet.fi/html/ships_1667-1797.html
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battaglia_di_Lepanto_(ordine_di_battaglia)


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