Revised Review and suggestions

 
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SirChristopher
Austrian Line Infantry
Austrian Line Infantry


Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:05 am    Post subject: Revised Review and suggestions

Hello all. My last post about NE's flaws were mostly because I failed to realize I needed War Chiefs as WELL as Asian Dynasties. That being said, I have now obtained TWC and reinstalled NE, and I must say 99% of my problems so far are now solved, so kudos to the team! But I do have a few suggestions:

1: The American's voices. I know you got the help of alot of people to do Polish, Italian, and what not voices, so why not the same for the Americans? They're one of my favorite civs so far, but seeing the fronteirsman speak like the British settler and the Marine sound like Cooper from the crappy story mode is a bit... dissapointing. Also, the Slaves really should get their own voices too, as they typically spoke broken "ebonic" english with a Southern accent... not like a British townie would Mr. Green

2: The Italian startup. They are slow. So slow they make the Portuguese seem like track runners. Not that I don't mind slow nations (I'm a turtle player myself...), but wow. The merchants cost 75 gold! That's... alot. I think it would be best to balence this out some as I really like the Italians as well. Maybe have their food cost be 100 and gold 50? Or food 125 and gold 25. Something like that.

3: Other voices in general. This may have already been fixed, but some civs (like the Poles), almost every unit has the same voice. In the case of the Poles, the settler, explorer unit, I think the hussar and and hand cannoneer all have the exact same voice actor, and that's sorta dissapointing too.

Otherwise everything is shaping up to be perfect almost. I haven't re-tested every Civ yet, so more suggestions might come up later.
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Matthew Sher
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Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 150
Location: Landisville, Pennsylvania, USA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:18 am    Post subject:

1: Since we can access a substantial amount of American dialect campaign unit voices, doing a set of American voices is not a major priority at the moment. The campaign voices have some great variety (being taken from all three sets) and are a much higher quality than what we could produce. I see and support your point with the villagers though, and eventually we should be able get those made.

2: Can't help you with balance issues. I see what you mean, so just keep bugging us about this one.

3: The Polish have just gotten a whole slew of new voices (albeit some still sound a little similar, but less so nonetheless). The Swedes, I agree though. We're gonna have to work on that, but I can't say when that will be done.

Good to know that these were the worst criticisms you could come up with, so I guess that's a good thing for us. Wink
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SirChristopher
Austrian Line Infantry
Austrian Line Infantry


Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:42 pm    Post subject:

Lol, yeah, almost all of my criticisms are kinda superficial really. But hey, a cake without icing is a cake half done in my opinnion! Mr. Green
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Seraphim
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Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 159

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 am    Post subject:

Re: #2.

The Italians start with a LOT of resources -- about 1050 normal resources, plus 150 XP. Because of this, they get their first shipments very, very fast. Most other civs typically start with 300 resources -- which they need to gather. Italy can thus start villager production a few seconds earlier, and start gathering right away. Basically, Italy starts with a lead -- and will then grow more slowly than most civs unless you do the right things to keep them going.

You'll want to concentrate a lot on gold -- Merchants gather gold about 1.5 times faster than a normal Settler, and other resources about 1.3 times faster (before upgrades). The standard Merchant upgrades for food and wood are better (meaning you'll want to buy economic upgrades very early with them). Also note the Market exchange rates -- because of their gathering rates and superior gold gathering, it's often good to buy wood early in the game rather than chop it. Resources also last a little longer for Merchants, so you'll get more gold out of every mine than with other civs. Also note the XP that Merchants also autogather while gathering resources -- 0.1/second might not seem like much, but early on, it really helps in getting shipments.

The numbers thus line up as follows:

Basic Settler: Trains in 25 seconds.
Merchant: Trains in 35 seconds. Equal to 1.3 or 1.55 Settlers in terms of basic gathering, plus a variable number for shipments, and never has to waste VS on building stuff.

Then there's the matter of your basic options.

#1 The Renaissance Prince can be your friend. You can age to Colonial faster than almost any other civilization. You can use this to either pull off an early rush (ship lots of military units, obviously) -- forward building is easy with the Architect -- or to try booming with an early extra TC. I wouldn't recommend building an extra TC too soon in general, though -- that basically ties up a lot of economy for a long time, forcing you to play very defensively (something which Italy can do reasonably well, though).

#2 You can do a very fast FF if you set your economy up right (go for a slow Colonial; you can then immediately click Fortress with the Renaissance Prince) -- no need for shipping 700 gold, even. The 3 Swashbucklers can be a very potent force against small armies early on. The Rose's Company or the Great Company won't hurt either.

#3 If you opt to fight in Colonial (generally the norm nowadays), keep some of Italy's specific advantages in mind. The Master Inventors card can give you a couple of (somewhat downgraded) Organ Guns. You can ship mercenaries -- Pavises and Elmetis (again, both downgraded) with the St George's Company card. You can also train Culverins if you send the TEAM Early Culverins card, allowing you to fight artillery from later ages easily without aging. You can have up to 3 TCs. You have access to an early ranged cavalry unit -- that doesn't have a penalty against enemy villagers when raiding.

#4 If in doubt, just put lots of resource crates in your deck. And the Levantine Trade card. Get any TPs you can, and eventually get the Warehousing and Armed Trading Stations upgrades at the Market. Also, never forget the Moneylending techs at the Market for a very basic economic growth option that'll help your gold last just a little bit longer as well.

For the first card to ship, the easiest basic card is Capitalism. The Renaissance card is also quite good -- don't overlook the value of cheaper early upgrades when they are also better. Also note that Renaissance has a small effect on the research time for all techs -- including age upgrades and shipments. On water maps, Italy gets Schooners, of course -- and very awesome Galleys. In some cases, shipping 300 wood first might also make sense.

All that said, I am currently taking a new, deep look at Italy, and some changes will probably be made at a future point in time.
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SirChristopher
Austrian Line Infantry
Austrian Line Infantry


Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:58 am    Post subject:

Italy can built about 5 or so merchants and then you hit a brick wall until about you're almost in the fortress age. You are so vulnerable to rush its sick. Even the Portuguese can defend against a rush if played properly.

And I do research all market things as well as use the Renaissance Prince as well as use all other economy boosting upgrades. Like I mentioned before, I'm a turtler, and I enjoy biding my time becoming powerful. I'd just like some defense against the rush is all. The Italians IMO are still too slow, and since their military is mostly archaic based they sorta need some balence twinking. Sure they get the best crossbowmen EVAR, but... it is STILL a crossbowman.
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