2 words on Poles
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konfitura
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:52 pm    Post subject: 2 words on Poles

Hi!
First of all i would like to tell, I love the idea of Napoleonic Era.
Secondly, those two words:

- For Polands personality I propose Tadeusz Kosciuszko.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadeusz_Kosciuszko
Great hero in Poland. Leader of uprising against Russia. But before that, he fought in American Revolutionary War. He built fort West Point, also did his job in Battle of Saratoga by building fortifications that held British in trap.

- As for capital city: Krakow!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krakow

- Polish pikemens could be call Chlop (plural Chlopi)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kosciuszko_pod_Raclawicami.jpg
Simple farmers of Poland, that went united to form hand-to-hand infantry divisions and help Kosciuszko's uprising. Their "pikes" were used to harvest crops until battle day Wink

- Polish musketeers/skirmishers deserve to be called Legionista (plural Legionisci).
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grafika:Napoleon_Polish_troops_by_Bellange.jpg
Formed in Italy to reclaim independance. They marched with Napoleon army. Nice fact for campaign.
French saying "soul comme un polonais" (drunk as polish) meaning something like, he fought he drunk he can still march on, was born in that days. btw: i hope meaning didnt change Wink

- New Idea: Religion was allways very important in Poland. It helped preserve the hardest days of Polish, also helped with fight against communism etc. It is worth to show it up. For example by giving a church an ability to upgrade itself into a weaker version of Fort. Exactly I mean Jasna Gora Monastery, which in fact is heavily fortified. Battle( more like siege) happened during Poland - Sweden war.
http://www.limuzynyvip.pl/czestochowa.jpg
Adding Holy Relic unit or technology, that benefits troops and is being held in that monastery, (destroyed monastery - no more bonus) provides extra strategy when playing Poles or against Poles.

I will edit my topic if something is unclear or when just needed. And will try to add extra info or photos. Hope to hear from you soon.
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BazzBrother
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:11 am    Post subject:

Change the title to "100 or more words on Poles" lol
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:10 pm    Post subject:

I agree with you Bazz Topmodel How stupid that ever might sound. Devil

I think you seem to know a lot, and I never mind uniqueness, unless it's unfair.

Would, according to your opinion, the Legonista be a permanent name for the musketeer, a special upgrade like the Caroline and Gustavian upgrades of sweden, or the name of the soldier in imperial age?

And I think religion was important in most nations during this span of time. Entire wars were faught about it. And a church, or rather a monastery- fort souds like a thing that would be easy to abuse.
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konfitura
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:18 pm    Post subject:

Legionista should be an imperial age name for musketeers. It would be historical correct. And to honor history, adding slight movement speed improvement seems a good idea.

By monastery - fort, i thought about strength of 2 outposts, not the unconquered bunker. One of special feautures mentioned about Poles is "cheaper but weaker buildings". That's why I think it's quite good idea worth pushing on.

But despite that:
There's an article in wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uhlan
stating: Uhlans (..) were Polish light cavalry armed with lances, sabres and pistols. The title was later used by lancer regiments in the Prussian and Austrian armies.

Thats worth a look.
I also have an opinion about current cavalry units(lisowczyk, partyzant), but looking at progress you allready did, i'm not sure if you are interested.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:40 pm    Post subject:

I am not part of anything in any way, but I am always interested. Smile

I knew that uhlans originally were from the polish part of the world, but I never conducted any further quest for knowlege in that matter. But if you know anything, please tell me if you have time, it is a great interest of mine. However it is of less importance where the soldiers originated compared to where they were used.

And please tell me about these Legonistas; why do they deserve a speed upgrade?

I hope that I will see a lot of you in the future, you seem to be a facinating person. (I like to study people, like ants, you see Devil )
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konfitura
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:32 pm    Post subject:

Why give them speed upgrade?
- To Honor fact that polish soldiers and volunteers were gathered in Italy. Napoleon not ready to attack Russia, send Legiony to end rebelions in Spain, Italy, San Domingo etc. After all they march to reclaim Poland, and for Moscow. Every unique named unit got something specific. Idea of speed boost for Legionisci was inspired by what I mentioned above. And after all fast moving infantry would work well with cavalry based nation.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:42 pm    Post subject:

I see. Very clever of you Wink Did they march from there quickly?

Hmm... I see your point, but in that case it would almost become a new nation bonus, speedy units that'll say. That is not nessesarily something bad though. Was speed and movement a high priority of the polish army?

Ant where do you live?
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konfitura
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:09 pm    Post subject:

Speed and mobility were allways priorities for Polish forces.
For example:
In 1410 victory against The Order of the Teutonic Knights of St. Mary's Hospital in Jerusalem was achieved by fast moving, good logistic operations, that gave strategic advantage over better armed trained and experienced army. In XV century it was world record (maybe european, chinese excels in many things) of speed such big forces.
Polish winged hussars were famous for its speed and manuverability. That showed in conquering moscow, saving vienna and Polish - Sweden war.
As far as I go with my memories to history lessons, most of military mistakes made by Polish commanders was shown as examples of "moving not fast enough".
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:17 pm    Post subject:

I like all the ideas, but the Uhlans were actually a type of Tatar soldier. The Poles just copied the idea from the, and the Prussians copied it from the Poles Smile
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konfitura
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:19 am    Post subject:

As it is written in wiki. You dont check my links, do you? Crying or Very sad

Idea was not only copied. Light cavalry evolved into Hussaria and Pancerni, and even into noble family of mercenaries known as Lisowczyk.
And Ulani were born again in their true form when gunpowder dominated battlefields.
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Jaguar6
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:30 am    Post subject:

Wow, now I feel like an idiot Razz
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Matthew Sher
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:56 am    Post subject:

2 words on Poles:

"Kick ass." Wink
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Fig Newton
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:07 am    Post subject:

I imagine that the speed tech could be thrown in as a card?
Like 20-30% speed increase?

I think that the Tabor unit should have a greater aura range and perhaps a bit stronger boost. And to balance that out, put a limit on tabors, like the nuncios or the tross units.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:08 am    Post subject:

All good ideas Fig.

And yes, now I remember that your army were quick: It managed to keep away from ours for years during the great northern war. And our army was quick, because of the low ammount of artillery. Good work there Smile
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konfitura
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:35 am    Post subject:

Oh which one exactly?
I remember three greater northern wars and besides them five Polish -Swedish wars.
And yes, Russians kept us busy.
No matter how long we evaded, nothing can be better than battle at kircholm when Polish cavalry won against 3 times bigger Swedish army (with more artillery, that we took).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kircholm

Will the Sweden in game have unique ships? Like those one built by your kings that sunk just after putting them on water, that i saw in museum? lol
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:40 pm    Post subject:

Which war? The one usually called "the Great Northern war" Sweden vs. Denmark, Poland(and Saxony) and Russia. Between 1700 and 1718. The result was the rise of the Russian empire, and the downfall of the Swedish one. We dealt with our enemys in wrong order. First Denmark, then Poland and finally Russia. We failed to beat Russia, much because of, ironically, the battle of Narva. We had a cruching victory there, and so came to underestimate them. We should have attacked Russia before we attacked Poland.

And yes, Karl IX was a poor warrior. But I can present exampels of equally humiliating battles from your point of wiew. We actually kicked your king (August the Strong) of his throne, which you never managed to do to us. Devil (Or wait, how was the story of Sigismund now again? Need to check that. What if I am wrong. How embarresing that would be Embarassed )

And yes, the ship Vasa was a big failiour, it only got 300 metres before it sank. But at the same time it was good that it sank where it sank, because we now have a well- preserved ship from the 1600:s. This is only because we don't have shipworms; the salt balanse in the water makes it impossible for them to survive, and the pollutions in the water helped to kill off most other unwanted things eating on the ship. Rolling Eyes
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