Swiss
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Are the swiss your favourite civ?
Yes
23%
 23%  [ 17 ]
They were, but not anymore.
9%
 9%  [ 7 ]
Not Sure.
29%
 29%  [ 21 ]
No.
36%
 36%  [ 26 ]
Total Votes : 71

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Iliander
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:36 pm    Post subject:

I believe no. Since Tilanus recently explained that Arquebusiers are efficient against hand infantry, because of their hand attack having an increased counter towards heavy infantry.
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:23 am    Post subject:

Iliander wrote:
I believe no. Since Tilanus recently explained that Arquebusiers are efficient against hand infantry, because of their hand attack having an increased counter towards heavy infantry.

And that is argument enough for you to deny the possibility that I would alter the standard unit setup?

The new Arquebusiers will be fine, xBows got pwned quickly enough and easily anyway.
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Iliander
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:35 am    Post subject:

Start behaving normally.

Are you saying that Arquebusiers replace Crossbowmen?

So actually the new system is the following:

Musketeers beat Arquebusiers
Arquebusiers beat Swordsmen
Swordsmen beat Musketeers

Ehm... yes?
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:02 pm    Post subject:

Iliander wrote:
Start behaving normally.

You little arrogant kid don't tell me on my forum what to do, okay? If you're looking for some fighting, Iliander, you can have it. I did behave normally, it is you who's looking for madness. You simply have no respect, that's why nobody respects you. If your questions imply a lack of thinking, face it, accept it if somebody tells you and don't yell like a beaten dog.

And no, that's not the new system.
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Iliander
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:23 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
You little arrogant kid don't tell me on my forum what to do, okay? If you're looking for some fighting, Iliander, you can have it. I did behave normally, it is you who's looking for madness. You simply have no respect, that's why nobody respects you. If your questions imply a lack of thinking, face it, accept it if somebody tells you and don't yell like a beaten dog.


And again you judge me wrong. Why don't you just crawl out of your dark cave and use the light to come to some realizations?


Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile


Oh, and... back to topic, everyone!

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SAOL
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:37 pm    Post subject:

For fuck's sake, settle down the both of you.

Neither of you, nor anyone else, have anything to gain from your mutually grumpy and arrogant attitudes against each other. You're just spreading a bad mood, the both of you. Stop it.

Smile, be happy and try to appreciate the good sides you both have instead of constantly slamming down at what you find annoying in the other.

What has transpired here is that Iliander asked if the Arquebusier really did replace the x-bow, Tilanus confirmed it, after which Iliander asked whether he's understood the new counter system right. Forget about the rest, it's all just a negative spiral that I doubt neither of you intentionally asked for.
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Iliander
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:44 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
For fuck's sake, settle down the both of you.


Oh I'm settled down in my comfortable chair already, but thanks. Good show btw. lol

Quote:
Neither of you, nor anyone else, have anything to gain from your mutually grumpy and arrogant attitudes against each other. You're just spreading a bad mood, the both of you. Stop it.


It is inside our DNA! Teaching Grandpa

Quote:
Smile, be happy and try to appreciate the good sides you both have instead of constantly slamming down at what you find annoying in the other.

What has transpired here is that Iliander asked if the Arquebusier really did replace the x-bow, Tilanus confirmed it, after which Iliander asked whether he's understood the new counter system right. Forget about the rest, it's all just a negative spiral that I doubt neither of you intentionally asked for.


+1 for the wise SAOL! Wink

Anyway, the thing is this:

"Arrogant people can't stand arrogant people." Topmodel

However I agree, Tilanus let's shake hands. Waddaya say? Cool
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Ca Putt
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:26 pm    Post subject:

I'd just advise Iliander to finaly stop behaving like an admin.
honestly man, that's what upsets Tilanus and me most, just cut that and you won't get Administrative hate tirades, simple as that Mr. Green

That and your tendency to Judge, you can(and are fully entitled to) do so on your forum not here however.

Anyway, were looking towards a bit less leveled and more accurate solution for the early infantry(and cavalry). It's a bit more complex than rock paper scissors Wink
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Heathen678
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:33 pm    Post subject:

Tilanus Commodor wrote:
But the Swiss should be more of a mercenary, stealthy and less centralized civ as they were not really united (similar to Germans).


I think that is an awesome idea - I'm really looking forward to seeing how that plays out Smile Do you have any details about how you're going to accomplish this?
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Persian_Fusilier
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:00 pm    Post subject:

If every building of swiss transform into wagon ,it would be so much better ,cause this means swiss completely use real portable strategies and tactics.
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caveman909
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:07 am    Post subject:

Female followers would sooooo awesome too lol

p.s. instead of berries, could the swiss have some extra cow farming cards, since they're so well known for their cows? Banana!

ok im out..
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Chzchan
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:04 am    Post subject:

The Swiss are by far the most dynamic and entertaining civ to play in my opinion. They also happen to be my personal favorite, so let the bias ensue.

I must thank the Devs for making them so awesome. I just love how they work. I have yet to lose a non-treaty battle as them and, even with treaty on, I can still manage to pack a punch and shoulder some work for my teammates.

Aging up takes literally no time with how fast Followers gather as well as the Swiss Clockwork/Timekeeping card. By the 10-12 minute mark, I have most maps completely covered in Tents as they have no build limit. Thanks to the Standing Army + Peasant Militia + Fencing School combo I can crank out troops at light speed by this time as well.

The Followers are fast, tough, and efficient. I like how you Devs pretty much made them the Swiss Skirmisher. Their design also makes a lot of sense as well. I am pretty sure that most males in Switzerland are issued an assault rifle at the age of 18 after taking some (probably) mandatory military training. They are Militia, Skirmishers and Villagers all in one and they are free!

The thing I love about them the most is that they are completely decentralized. I never have units/buildings grouped up in a single area. I have my Supply Carts, Tents, Followers, Plantations, and single Factory spread out across the map so that my enemies will never really completely exterminate me. They have to hunt down each and every one of my supply carts like horcruxes before being able to even scratch my economy. I also never stop moving my units which really confuses and irritates my opponents. Despite my lack of wall-building abilities, I feel invincible, at least until I am put up against the Swedish.

Thank you. Really, thank you.

From what I have read in this thread Crossbowmen are being replaced by... Arquebuisers was it? I think I read something about the Swiss keeping Crossbowmen too.

I personally think that they should. I actually think that the Swiss should have a few more cards/techs involving crossbowmen since they will be the only civ to keep them. It would make them more unique.

I know this isn't the suggestion forum, but I'd like to proclaim a few small ideas that I think the Swiss would benefit from as well as express my opinion on a few of the Dev posts. A few of them concern the crossbowmen.

Singular Break Camp

I believe that the giving each and every Bio-tent the ability to transform into a wagon without transforming the other Bio-tents into wagons would extend the possibilities for micro-managing and strategy.

Having to go around and re-place Bio-tents I did not want to move is quite the hassle. I mean, I could always build more instead of moving them. With the card Great Camp, they cost a mere 75 gold and build instantly. Over-building them leads to a lot of clutter that I would like to avoid, though.

I also hope for the possibility of being able to transform non-military buildings like Headquarters and Plantations into wagons as well to go along with the decentralized, always-on-the-go nature of the civ itself. This can be done through cards or techs, or even be singular, but it is just a dream rather than a solid suggestion.

Extended Crossbowmen Techs/Cards

I have already come to realize that Swiss Crossbowmen are complete badasses when fully upgraded with Arbalest, Windlass, and Willaim Tell, but I want that badassery to go even further.

I believe there should be some card/tech that lessens or even gets rid of the wood cost for crossbowmen and replaces it with a gold cost. This would follow in the footsteps of the Reislaufers which inertly have their wood cost replaced with gold.

There should be a tech/card that reduces the movement speed of crossbowmen greatly, but increases their range and probably attack power. This would make them the perfect support unit for the Heavy Infantry that makes up the bulk of Swiss armies.

On the topic of Swiss Pikemen, Reislaufers, and Swiss Gaurds

What exactly is going to be done regarding them? I read that Swiss Gaurds will become shipment units. I also read that Reislaufers are going to be changed. Is this true?

If it is then I have a few last suggestions.

There needs to be another core unit instituted into the Bio-tents to replace the Swiss Gaurd. It will obviously have a similar bonus against Heavy Infantry to complement the Reislaufer's bonuses against Cavalry and Light Infantry. It will most likely be a bit weaker, though.

I read another individual's suggestion to give Reislaufer's a Conscript-like bonus that makes their health and damage grow based on numbers. This is a great idea. The bonus would not be nearly as potent as the Conscript's, of course.

This power in numbers bonus can also be taken into consideration when re-designing the Reislaufer.

Thank you for your time.

(Sorry if you had trouble reading anything; English is my second language)
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Heathen678
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:31 am    Post subject:

Great review! They're my favorite civ, too. I think I'll try out some of the things you mentioned and see how they work out. I'm also a big fan of the Followers - it's so satisfying when you can take out entire armies with villagers Devil

Edit: I never really thought about using crossbowmen before because I always used followers instead, but I think I'll have to give them another look now..
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Chzchan
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:42 am    Post subject:

Swiss Crossbowmen are amazing.

At maximum, they have 36 damage and 22 range. They are essentially Skirmishers without the huge multipliers against Heavy Infantry.

I don't see a use for Musketeers since they only have 12 range and their anti-cav abilities are completely outclassed by every other melee unit.

Crossbowmen are also affected by battlefield construction which Musketeers are exempt from for some reason.

If you combo them with Merc Black Riders (which you are allowed to buy from Saloons automatically after sending a certain church tech) and a good amount of Reislaufers/Swiss Pikemen and Swiss Gaurds up in the front you'll have a pretty balanced regiment.
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SAOL
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:09 pm    Post subject:

I don't think it is a good idea to let mills, plantations, HQ's and those more 'substantial' buildings be transformed into wagons, partly because they aren't buildings that are typically easy to move, and partly because the Swiss already has a very powerful degree of decentralisation if used right. It's a pain enough to be forced down military buildings (especially since a card allows them to be built by all infantry units) and gatherer-producing units. In fact I rather think the supply wagon should move a bit slower.

It would however make sense to being able to pack up a single Bivouac.
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Chzchan
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:37 pm    Post subject:

Yeah, I had a feeling that idea was a bit too much. A man can dream, right?

I can always blow up buildings and re-build them anyway. Turning them into carts would just reduce the resource costs.

I'm glad someone likes the singular break camp idea, though.
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