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Wojtek
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Location: Wrocław, Poland

PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:37 pm    Post subject:

SAOL wrote:
Of course. Everything becomes more difficult when there is less money. On the other hand Poland isn't very ethnically divers and doesn't receive an awful lot of immigrants who speak a completely different language, so the need would be less as well.

The perfect situation for immigrants is to learn the language of their future homeland before they decide to emigrate and take courses after settling. Overcoming the language barrier will help them integrate and later on partially or fully assimilate. I mentioned assimilation because I think that immigrants should not live in the so called "ghettos" but should live side by side with the rest of the society. It gives them not only better opportunities to increase the quality of their life but they are also exposed to the real language, they have an opportunity to talk to native speakers of the target language and their children will acquire the language faster and more efficiently.

Quote:
I suppose habit plays a role in it. Of course it does. For me though; I can't take it. It's like having two people trying to talk to you at the same time.
Our habits do matter. I was exposed to this sort of translation of foreign movies and I got used to and now consider it normal. You don't and this is understandable. Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:58 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Our habits do matter. I was exposed to this sort of translation of foreign movies and I got used to and now consider it normal. You don't and this is understandable.
I do on the radio though. But the radio also lacks visual options.

Quote:
The perfect situation for immigrants is to learn the language of their future homeland before they decide to emigrate and take courses after settling.
Of course, but that's not how a great deal of migration happens.
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Wojtek
Totenkopfhusar
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:43 pm    Post subject:

I haven't posted for so long because the academic year has started and I'm sooo busy. I do think that some of the classes I have to attend are hmm... weird. Here's a text. My task is to go through all lines of the translated text in both Polish and English and learn the vocabulary. A little bit boring I guess Rolling Eyes
Spoiler:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:57 am    Post subject:

OK... seems more high school level to me. A bit odd, I would agree. Topmodel
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Harkimo
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:26 pm    Post subject:

That's very odd indeed. I'd never have guessed people would make their courses intentionally boring.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:23 pm    Post subject:

Oh, you just wait and see! lol
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Wojtek
Totenkopfhusar
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Joined: 30 Dec 2009
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Location: Wrocław, Poland

PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:47 pm    Post subject:

Well, yeah...I've got these classes tomorrow at 8:15. This is definitely not a good way of waking people up. Sad

I found something extremely interesting (for me lol ) This is a map of Europe divided into dialects.
http://i.imgur.com/33Semx0.png

* hornjoserbćina is spoken in the south and delnjoserbćina in the north of the so-called Lusatia.
** Island Wolin is white on the map but I can assure you that the island is inhabited and Polish is spoken there lol Also the eastern part of Usedom with Świnoujście are not inhabited by Germans but Poles and thus Polish should be marked on the map instead of German.
*** There are some places in opolszczyzna where German is still spoken but these weren't marked on the map.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:16 am    Post subject:

You don't have mid-term leaves in Poland? Even my studying sibling is virtually on holiday.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:46 pm    Post subject:

Harkimo wrote:
You don't have mid-term leaves in Poland? Even my studying sibling is virtually on holiday.
I'm not. We've never had leave in the fall. We do usually have a week of at easter, however.

Wojtek wrote:
This is a map of Europe divided into dialects.
There are quite a few... And there is of course still more, depending on how fine-grained you wish to be. Razz

Quote:
Well, yeah...I've got these classes tomorrow at 8:15. This is definitely not a good way of waking people up.
Really? Why not? Mr. Green At least we are off Daylight saving time now, so you get an extra hour in the morning.
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Wojtek
Totenkopfhusar
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Location: Wrocław, Poland

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:39 pm    Post subject:

1 November (All Saints' Day) is off in Poland. The Independence Day (11 November) is off as well and this is enough for this month. I don't think the idea of fall vacation, for example from 1 to 11 November, would be a good idea. I do prefer to have longer winter break and/or summer vacations instead of a fall break, which is nonsense for me. Weather in November is usually horrible with lots of rain, wind and sleet. It's perfect for studying and working not holidays.

Sometimes public holidays are on Thursdays or Tuesdays and it may give us a prolonged weekend. Universities may announce dni rektorskie (rector days, which simply means no classes) and workers can take paid days off to complete the prolonged weekend. This is the case of 8,9,10 and 11 November and 3,4,5 and 6 January.
Days in bold are national holidays.

The map of dialects of Polish is not as accurate as it should be but there are too many things to point out in order to improve it. My favorite dialect of Polish is still the one spoken by Poles in Lithuania. I can imitate it because I'm a learner of Russian but I guess the result would be miserable and I would sound awkward and unnatural. I can't even speak Russian like a native lol Neutral

I need this additional hour like a fish needs a bicycle. Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:21 pm    Post subject:

We don't have class today because it's all saint's eve, but it's not a national holiday. A lot of people quit work early today, however.

I don't know what it's like in Poland, but in Sweden most university courses and programmes have a fair amount of scheduled study time. There may be a few lectures a week and some seminars, but it's not uncommon that half the week is reserved for studies, in some cases more, in other cases less. In my case it is definitely much less.

A lot of universities simply put a block of self-study time during a week in the autumn. Of course you're supposed to be studying. But, you know lol

Quote:
I can't even speak Russian like a native
Is that a surprise. You're not a native speaker of Russian, after all. Topmodel At your age you can become pretty good at Russian, but it is almost impossible to reach some kind of bone-marrow native level. Your brain is too old.

Quote:
I need this additional hour like a fish needs a bicycle.
What do you mean to say with this? That you are a morning person?
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Wojtek
Totenkopfhusar
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Joined: 30 Dec 2009
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Location: Wrocław, Poland

PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:59 pm    Post subject:

All Saint's Day is tomorrow, not today. In Poland universities don't care about whether we have time to study for our MA defense or not. They fill your schedule with unneeded and pointless subjects to meet the requirements of the ministry. One of the subjects I mentioned a couple of posts earlier (legal documents translation). I hope we'll have fewer subjects in the last semester.

No matter how I try my Polish accent will always interfere no matter whether this is English or Russian.

I'm a Pole. I love complaining about everything. Water is too wet and snow is too cold etc. Neutral

I mean that when there is 1 hour of sunlight more in the morning, at the same time there is 1 hour of sunlight less in the evening. The conclusion: It doesn't change anything and is pointless. Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:13 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
All Saint's Day is tomorrow, not today.
I said "all saint's eve", not all saint's day. In Sweden we typically celebrate more on the eve of a holiday rather than the day itself. Julafton, pskafton, midsommarafton, allhelgonaafton and so on.


Quote:
They fill your schedule with unneeded and pointless subjects to meet the requirements of the ministry. One of the subjects I mentioned a couple of posts earlier (legal documents translation). I hope we'll have fewer subjects in the last semester.
So how does a typical week look like?

If they throw in a lot of classes just to fill some government quota it's obvious that the system is quite different from ours.

Quote:
No matter how I try my Polish accent will always interfere no matter whether this is English or Russian.
That's only natural.

Quote:
I mean that when there is 1 hour of sunlight more in the morning, at the same time there is 1 hour of sunlight less in the evening. The conclusion: It doesn't change anything and is pointless.
Of course it changes things? It takes an hour of light from the evening and put it at the start of the day instead. It makes a big difference!

For instance, when I got to school last Monday and a while later (perhaps at 07:45) looked out the window it was still dark. I did the same thing this Monday, and it wasn't. To have a bit of light in the morning makes it easier to get up. On the other hand the sun had gone down when I went home this Monday, but not last Monday. I prefer to have that morning light as I don't want to feel like I'm starting my day while it is still night, but I know other people feel the opposite way.
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Wojtek
Totenkopfhusar
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Joined: 30 Dec 2009
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Location: Wrocław, Poland

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:33 pm    Post subject:

2 months without a single reply? Wow, I admit I didn't really have time to visit NE because I'm busy, busy and busy. Now I'm here with something new:

Contracted pronouns/prepositions

Do they exist in your language? Any examples?

Pronouns
In Polish the most common two are: go (full form jego) and: mu (full form jemu)

jego - his
jemu - him

It wouldn't be any trouble if they were supposed to be used interchangeably but this is not the case.

Examples: (* - grammatically wrong)
Pomogłem mu. (I helped him) > more common form
Pomogłem jemu. (I helped him)

*Mu pomogłem (Him I helped)
Jemu pomogłem (Him I helped)

If a pronoun is at the beginning of the sentence, it doesn't contract. Similarly, when the emphasis (sentence stress) is put on the pronoun, it doesn't contract.

*Poszedłem do go. (I went to him)
Poszedłem do *niego. (I went to him)

When a pronoun is preceded with a preposition, it doesn't contract.
*- jego changes to niego when preceded with a preposition.

Prepositions

A rather archaic but fancy feature of Polish. Generally speaking these are prepositions blended with masculine pronoun (Genitive).

Zrobię dlań wszystko (I'll do everything for him)
Zrobię dla niego wszystko (I'll do everything for him)

Pjdę doń jutro (I'll go to him tomorrow)
Pjdę do niego jutro (I'll go to him tomorrow)

Spojrzała nań zniesmaczona (She looked at him disgusted)
Spojrzała na niego zniesmaczona (She looked at him disgusted)

Wyszła odeń wczoraj wieczorem (She went out from him (his house) in the evening)
Wyszła od niego wczoraj wieczorem (She went out from him (his house) in the evening)

Tu nie chodzi oń (It's not about him)
Tu nie chodzi o niego (It's not about him)

Przezeń mamy kłopoty! (Because of him we all have troubles!)
Przez niego mamy łopoty! (Because of him we all have troubles!)

Jakaś tajemnicza siła weszła weń [A mysterious force went in him (possessed him?)]
Jakaś tajemnicza siła weszła w niego [A mysterious force went in him (possessed him?)]

Ta kobieta wyszła zań [This woman married him (literally: went out behind him Smile ]
Ta kobieta wyszła za niego [This woman married him (literally: went out behind him Smile ]

Żaden zeń pożytek! [There's no use of him (he's useless)]
Żaden z niego pożytek! [There's no use of him (he's useless)]
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SAOL
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:22 pm    Post subject:

No, we don't contract a lot in that way. Is this only for speech or can you use it in writing as well?

On the other hand there are a number of words that often are contracted. Some so frequently that some people don't know the long form.

Realisation Arrow rea
(sale)

Most contractions, whether they are shortening of words or grammatical omissions, are only used in speech.

Ngonting Arrow Nnting Arrow Ngot Arrow Nt
(something)

The bold ones can be used in writing, the other two can't. The bolded ones aren't completely interchangable though (ngot can be an adverb as well as a pronoun).
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Wojtek
Totenkopfhusar
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Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 579
Location: Wrocław, Poland

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:03 pm    Post subject:

In case of pronouns jemu/mu and jego (niego)/go, this is a rule both in speech and writing. A native speaker of Polish will never make a mistake.

The case of contracted prepositions blended with pronouns is quite different. This feature is a little bit archaic but people will understand. People don't use it very often, more rarely in speech. Some use it but in a wrong way because prepositions can only be blended with masculine pronouns not feminine. The day before yestreday I was searching some forums and saw someone using it incorrectly, so I believe that people are not aware of restrictions in using it.

I'm curious whether this is possible in Russian. Russian and Polish pronouns and prepositions are almost the same so I wonder what kind of clipping or blends can be done in Russian. I'll take a look Wink Hmm...well...I think this is not the case in Russian. If it was, I would know lol
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