Languages, Words and Letters
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Ca Putt
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 12:49 pm    Post subject:

ah ok i get it tho there is no extra word in german. (simmilar to Meat, which has a mulittude of versions in englisch but just very few in german)

well first of all it looks silly if a ö follows an i just because of the ... but apart from that you sond like someone who got his balls choped of when pronouncing it. you can't even pronounce it in an even remotely rugged way. try it. on the other hand it lacks the sound of an intelectual term,, it just sonds as if a drunken wussy would try to talk snobbish.
I don't know how you prononce it in sweden but in german words ending on ös sound utterly silly and even more if there is an I before the ö.
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 12:52 pm    Post subject:

Melodiös is the Swedish word for it Neutral Melodisch sounds a bit... bohemic Confused

Not Hudd lol And no, I wouldn't say it's like that. Rather the opposite, actually Neutral

German is togeather with french the language that has had the strongest influense on other western european languages. All the germanic languages are littered with them, some of them are loan words, others have a common root. Take us here in scandinavia. A LOT of the words are of german descent. Take English, which is some sort of mix of German and French for the most part. Almost 70% of the words used in everyday English is Germanic. The "higher" the level gets, though, the more french it becomes. Thet is why they have have a lot of words with the same meaning.

Take "come" and "arrive". German, and French Wink
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Ca Putt
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 4:08 pm    Post subject:

oh well i would track that a bit further back afterall French is a romanic language adapted by germanic and Celtic people, whereas German is a germanic language with much less romanic influence.
English is basically a Germanic language, which shows most clearly when analysing the grammer( Mr. Green ) with a full set of Romanic words adapted from Romans and Normans all on the basis of a Celtic poplulation. and well in sweden, hmm well i don't speak swedish very often but i would think swedish is a germanic language even more germanic and less influenced than german.

Melodisch sounds like a fat Opera singer(male) which is ok as the word is associated with music Razz
nah melodiös just sounds gay
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 5:13 pm    Post subject:

Swedish isn't more germanic than German, I would say ^^. The german and french influenses have been very strong the latest 700 years. Languages are not only changed upon influence, it changes pretty much on it self. When it comes to Swedish, a lot of things has happend over the latest hundred years, it has gone from something more like german, with the impossible grammar Devil , towards something else. And so Swedish is a north-germanic language, while german and english are west-germanic.

It works much the same way as evolution does on several plans. Man is not developed from a shimpanzee, but both are developed from a common mother.

If you want to find a really old language, travel to Iceland. They are the most language conservative people on the surface of the earth. Loaning words is not permitted, they make new ones from old germanic roots instead. They speak pretty much the same thing as they did when they first came into isolation.
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Tilanus Commodor
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 5:50 pm    Post subject:

Totally different question: Did anyone of you ever thought about learning a constructed language like Solresol or Esperanto? Fictional languages like elvish? Mr. Green Mr. Green

Just read a lot of wiki articles today, I was always interested in linguistics and thus I'm a fan of language constructions. Devil

I noticed Esperanto is quite easy to learn, but Solresol seems to be funnier cause you can also communicate via instruments, that's a damn nice feature of the language! *lookinginawe* Cool Cool

And BliSS is a cool symbol language. Smile
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Ca Putt
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 7:19 pm    Post subject:

Mr. Green didn't know that, interesting. but i was never good at learning languages so I never bothered/dared Mr. Green

I was always more interested in finding the roots of different words and thus have a Ethymological dictionary on my desk right next to Oxfor Advanced Learner's Dictionary Mr. Green

what i meant by more "germanic" was that it has less romanic or Celtic influence it has german influence but that is not an argument that it is less germanic than german Mr. Green and i was reffering to germanic languages in general and not west or north they still have more in common than with celtic or Romanic languages, don't you think? Razz

sorry tilanus, i overread your first post Embarassed
i agree finding German words in English is great fun.
whereas Weltschmerz is my all time favorite Mr. Green and i think I've once heard Angst as a Psycological term Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 8:59 pm    Post subject:

Weltschmerz lol In an English article?

No, somehow the idea of constructed languages doesn't appeal to me. It's a bit like androids, robots that look human, but not quite. It just doesn't feel right, it isn't natural.

Learning fantasy languages; well I consider that the hight of dorkyness Devil

The people living in Scandinavia, with the finns and lapps exepted, came from the areas that today are Germany, (which is one reason to why Hitler went relatively easy on us Wink ) Which means that there are celtic influences as well, just a bit older. The Germanic languages are also fairly old; even though it is extinct, Gothic "is" an east germanic language.

I read a fairly interesting article some weeks ago, where they had concluded that some of the words in the indo-european language group has had rather similar pronunciation for 20 000 years or so.

Again, it is not hard to "find" german words in English. Especially amongst old words. Rolling Eyes But it can still be fun Devil On a modern level, that will say after the vikings, who left an awful linguistic footprint in large parts of Europe, swedish hasn't produced many loan words. The only one I can think of that exists in English is smorgasboard, from smörgåsbord.

"Bord", by the way is a low-German word. I don't think it is used much now though, in favout of Tisch. ^^

Sorry CA_Putt, I missed your post about melodiös.

I can say that I disagree with you there. There is a word, I think (I am always struck by uncertainty in situations like these) that is "melodisk" (yup, there is). In my ears melodisk sounds much more dry than melodiös. You can't say that a song is melodisk...
There are a lot, or at least some of words ending in -ös. Generös, pretentiös, melodiös and so on. so no, I do not think it sounds odd in any way.

Melodiös in phonetic writing would be something like melωdi'øs
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Ca Putt
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 10:18 pm    Post subject:

well that does not stand against my claim that swedish has more germanic elements than german.

it's mostly arraged in scientific fields thus due to freud(and others) there are many german words used in psychology eg Weltschmerz.
So in tolerant(meaning non-french) languages, you can see where special fields of knowledge come from or were practiced at most during the pioneer phase.
english being a very open language adopts such words even if there already is an english word for it.

bord is still used but more for side boards etc. Mr. Green probably the result of re-importation of a word that has not been totaly forgotten^^

I didn't say it's uncommon it just sounds silly. apart from that many of those words are corrupted versions of words the "creator" just knows as a noun or forgot the ending of the adjective.
take Fabulös now that's a silly word it sounds as if the "creator" just know "fabulous" and said to himself, "well that word should not sound too different in my native toughe. " what about fabelhaft?!!?!
most of those words are at the level of gossip-Journalism, trying to fit into the world of glitter and conversations about who bought the most expensive car. there is an air of hypocrisy attached to thiese words.
You may have noticed that my comments on suggestions are often identical to those of tilanus commodor but much friendlier. well if it were in german i would make use of lots of -ös words to underline the hypocrisy you have to employ to avoid treding on peoples toes.
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 10:38 pm    Post subject:

Well, there you have a difference. There is no word like Fabelhaft in Swedish. Neutral Fabulös it is and that's the end of it. And I think that word came before the gossip press, and the freedom to print papers ^^

If you want gossip-journalism style words, I have one for you.

A while ago, I came a cross the word "paparazzisar" in a paper, which is triple plural ^^
First the Italian -i, then the English -s and then last but not least Swedidh -ar lol Now that is bad influence Devil

Do you know where the term paparazzi come from by the way, it's quite fynny?
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 10:52 pm    Post subject:

Ca Putt wrote:
You may have noticed that my comments on suggestions are often identical to those of tilanus commodor but much friendlier. well if it were in german i would make use of lots of -ös words to underline the hypocrisy you have to employ to avoid treding on peoples toes.

Aha aha, Mister, that's interesting! Topmodel
Suggestions need to be good, not friendly. If a suggestion is not good, I see no reason to say something else which is not expressing what I think. You might call it insensitive or whatever you want, but I'm always honest and people should be thankful for that. An honest answer is of much higher value than a mollifying answer. However, that doesn't imply that I'm never calming, but sometimes you just need to be stricter than the other guy to make him stop and rethink, reflect what he has written. You can still have good intentions and be successful with it without being Mr. Nice Guy. Wink

Personally I prefer simple language with a fair, but limited mix of formal - you might call it "intellectual" - words. It shows that you're able to speak on a higher level, but prefer standing on the ground. Smile
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 11:01 pm    Post subject:

Yeah, that's what men of your calibre do pout Devil
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Ca Putt
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 10:25 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Well, there you have a difference. There is no word like Fabelhaft in Swedish. Neutral Fabulös it is and that's the end of it. And I think that word came before the gossip press, and the freedom to print papers ^^
seems as if people in germany once sought the word to gay and constructed the more formal, more authentic, more cold, more German word Fabelhaft, until someone reimported it Razz

nah i say the important things aswell but if there is something i cant stand its whining.
on the other hand, I just don't like treding on peoples toes. well I'm probably just a "gutmensch" of the kind Kai Diekmann hates them the most Mr. Green
ps i know it's do-gooder in english but gutmensch is slightly differently connoted Wink
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 10:53 am    Post subject:

Gutmench sounds better ^^

If you can avoid stepping on peoples toes, but sill manage to deliver your message, then you have truly succeeded. What if you were a polititian and had to raise taxes, or cut some well liked state program down, like "we have to close all libaries". You need to be smooth. If you are having diplomatic discussions "you are an idiot, mr. Bush", isn't the right way to go lol
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 1:45 pm    Post subject:

SAOL wrote:
Well, you are more English that I am. Besides, our government preferres the use of English English to the farthest possible extent, and so do I. Then Australian English, and at the very bottom, American english.


... I would have been insulted, but who am I kidding Mr. Green American English is... terrible Sad I find it easier to understand people from the south or the midwest instead of the people from cities... primarily because they talk with a question mark at the end of each sentence. Drives me insane Surprised
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 7:06 pm    Post subject:

I don't much enjoy the melody of it, actually. Maybe I have been indoctrinated, but that is the case coffee
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 1:42 am    Post subject:

if say both me and the gael were talking as an example, would you be able to tell the difference between our accents? i know from experience in europe, that despite hearing my fanmily talk, they still thought we were english Rolling Eyes Mad lol .

and you should put New Zealand-English below American-English. only kiwis and australians can tell the difference between the two accents, but the kiwis sound shocking. Surprised Rolling Eyes Exclamation

their a sounds sound like e. their e sounds sound like i. and their i's are the neutral sound, where their isnt really a sound there at all. all with the same australian twang to it. it sounds horrible
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