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SAOL
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:53 am    Post subject:

What do you mean? This is too cryptic.
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Harkimo
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:32 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
I mean, wouldn't most countries want to start with themselves?

Maybe this will bring some clarity?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:16 pm    Post subject:

Yes it did.

At least focusing on your self is simpler. More obvious. I mean... what are you? A communist? Why should you have to pay for other people's incompetence, especially when you are in need of stuff yourself. Why should you help them, because it's not like they have much to bring to the table.

But if course we must help them. After we have helped ourselves.

I suppose it was such attitudes which made the new WTO agreement fail. Terrible pity.

On the other hand I do think there are occasions when a company represents a larger national interest than the pure capital, and I do understand why people are keen on defending those companies from being acquired or put out of business by foreigners. But mucking about with cheese trade? No, that's silly.
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SAOL
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:00 pm    Post subject:

So, the new Swedish government has stated they want to work for a two state solution for the Israel/Palestine conflict. From that statement you could deduce that they want to recognize Palestine as a country. This, apparently, has become internationally newsworthy.

So basically, yay nor nay to recognizing Palestine?
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GamerLuna
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:36 pm    Post subject:

Any other hardcore Communists here besides me?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:19 am    Post subject:

I think, based on the history of this thread, there are few people (myself included) who regardless of their present political standpoint would say communism is nice. As a fantasy. In practical theory it seems to be a type of society not possible to achieve.

We've had some rather hard core anti-communits over the years. While it would have been fun to see you go at it, they're no longer here.

As for myself; I usually avoid categorizing myself because it's more fun to observe and comment politics when others don't know your standpoint, as they usually immediately will apply all sorts of stereotypes on you and make assumptions. I do, however, usually say my ideological inclination is more to the left than the right.

So: why are you a hard-core communist?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:29 am    Post subject:

Because communism is right and it works , the only problem is the matter of execution and the people on top who are excecuting it being too greedy aka USSR . Also communism itself works but has always been sanctoned by capitalists and people who just want to reap the benefits of exploiting other people. Also unlike capitalism with forces people to fight with each other like wolves with communism everyone is working together for a common goal and is more unified . The only problem with communism is when people stash goods for themselves and thus creating shortages . And also many times the leaders of the party dont explain enough to people why this policy or that is needed. Again just a problem of execution.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:56 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Because communism [...] works
. OK. Can you give a real world example involving more than a few dozen people where it works?

Quote:
the only problem is the matter of execution and the people on top who are excecuting it being too greedy
True, perhaps. The issue is that this is something quite natural. If something isn't possible to execute because of human nature, then it doesn't work. The level of altruism and ability to look at the bigger picture communism demands is unrealistic and therefore problematic.

There are lots of things that work on paper but which doesn't actually work in practice because we as humans are irrational and emotionally unstable. Communism is one of those things. The idea of the free market solving everything is another.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:00 am    Post subject:

Real places where it works : Modding , Torrents , Warez , Libraries , emulation , private servers for mmos. Are the few that come of my head.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:38 am    Post subject:

Even if those were great examples of communism (and all of them aren't) that's like saying I could row across the pacific because I can row across a small pond in an amusement park.

So no, I do not consider any of those to be an example of communism working. Perhaps you didn't mean it, but when I hear "hardcore communist" I'm thinking of someone who wants the entire society to be communist, not little hobby-dribblets.

And remember that "free" doesn't indicate communism in and of itself. Google offer lots of free services, but it is driven by and paid for by capital gain - it is a way to get to you in order to monetize you, so to say.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:47 am    Post subject:

What about all those open source projects?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:19 am    Post subject:

In the case of Google it is perhaps more than anything a way to destroy the business model of their competitors: charging upfront for software. Making something free, or seemingly so, makes it very compelling. It also gives them goodwill and helps protect them from litigation (for now).
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There is a famous experiment that demonstrates the power of "free". People are offered two different chocolates. One, of poor quality, costs 10 cents. The other, of excellent quality, costs 5 cents. 80% will actually choose the better chocolate, despite it being 4 cents more expensive. If you change the experiment however, so that the cheap piece is free and the excellent piece is 10 cents, 80% will go for the poor quality piece. Despite the fact that the difference in price is a quarter of what they were prepared to pay before.



But of course the people at Google has to be paid. Since they don't charge upfront the users pay with their data instead. This is the direction in which everything is moving now - pay with your data. If that is a good thing or not... well, it doesn't really matter if it's the only option. Rolling Eyes

That data is gathered through software of Google's which is very much not open source. But in their marketing material they sort of blur the lines of what is open and what is not. For instance an increasing number of Android applications can't run if you don't have Google Play Services installed - new features of the application bundle are presented as new features of Android, even though they're not.

As Google's projects aren't managed as typical open source projects they have an opportunity like no one else to build the proprietary services required for monetization on top. They know what's coming before anyone else, and they can add or remove support as they please. So communist? No, I don't think so. It's a clever ruse.

Other open source software projects might serve as better examples, though a lot of them wouldn't hold up against closer scrutiny. Especially because it's just a piece of the puzzle for a business, not the core product.

Nevertheless, even if you were to find a good example, it would be like saying "because I can row across a small pond in an amusement park, the Pacific ocean is no match." There is a massive and crucial difference of scale between a software project and an entire society.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:47 pm    Post subject:

Just because scales change dosent mean the basics change
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:38 am    Post subject:

Not in principle, but in practice. And it is practice that counts, I'm afraid.

Take the general theory of relativity. It works perfectly for describing the movements of planets and other objects in space. On a small scale though, it breaks down.

You may be able to juggle, but not at the same time as riding a bicycle and playing the Lacrimosa backwards on an harmonica.

For communism to work you need everyone to be hard core communists and total altruists - not just with some little project on the side. That's just never going to happen.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 8:32 pm    Post subject:

It will happen , it will just take a long time , the early hunter gather human societies started out as communist and humanity will go to a communist future
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:47 pm    Post subject:

Nope. As I implied in my earlier question, the system may work in a relatively small group with scarce resources. It won't work in when it requires people to be absolutely altruistic to people the don't know - which is an inevitability of scale. It's simply not human nature.

That scale - of which modern society is - is not something people will give up. Why? Because of the number of different products which become possible to obtain. While communism may work in a small hunter gatherer group there is not enough people in that group to produce the variety of goods people crave.

I certainly hope we in the future can help one another and cooperate more than we do today, but it will not come on the expense of private property.
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